>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP: ON THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK, SETTLER ATTACKS AGAINST PALESTINIANS SURGED WITH ISRAELI ELECTIONS LESS THAN A WEEK AWAY.

CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND INVESTIGATES.

>>> THEN: >> THE POINT IS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THAT WE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, IS GOOD.

>> MICHAEL HAS HAD ONE HECK OF A RIDE.

MY CANDID CONVERSATION WITH CELEBRATED ACTOR, PRODUCER, AND NOW OUT WITH A HELL OF A MEMOIR.

>> I'M SO LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY, I JUST SOLVE MATH PROBLEMS.

>> A JOHN HERSCHEL WENT TO THE NFL TO M.I.T.

HE TALKS TO ISAACSON ABOUT WORKING OUT SOLUTIONS ON THE BOARD.

>>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENTS, JIM ATTWOOD & LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDICE KING WEIR, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, THE SYLVIA A.

& SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE THE STRAUS FOUNDATION, THE PETER G. PETERSON & JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

WE BEGIN IN ISRAEL WHERE LESS THAN A WEEK AWAY FROM CRITICAL ELECTIONS, PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IS CAMPAIGNING FOR ANOTHER TERM, AND DESPITE HEAVY CRITICISMS BOTH AT HOME AND ABROAD, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS ENDORSED HIM.

THIS AS NETANYAHU FACES ACCUSATIONS ABOUT FAILING TO HEED ADVANCED WARNINGS OF AN ATTACK PRIOR TO OCTOBER 7th, AN ALLEGATION THAT HE DENIES.

NETANYAHU MAINTAINS NO ONE CAN KEEP ISRAEL SAFER THAN HIM, BUT DO THE VOTERS AGREE?

ONE GROUP, WHICH ALMOST CERTAINLY STAND FIRM, ARE THE EXTREME SETTLERS.

NO OTHER GOVERNMENT HAS MORE EMPOWERED THE GROUP AS THEY SHARPLY INCREASE THEIR ATTACKS AND DISPLACEMENT OF PALESTINIAN RESIDENTS.

CORRESPONDENT JEREMY DIAMOND HAS REPORTED ON THIS STORY EXTENSIVELY AND HE JOINED ME FROM JERUSALEM.

JEREMY, GOOD TO SEE YOU, YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON THIS SETTLER VIOLENCE FOR A LONG TIME, NOW YOU'RE KIND OF STEPPING BACK AND PUTTING IT INTO CONTEXT.

WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT, CHRISTIANE.

OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST THREE YEARS, SINCE THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS, WE HAVE SEEN A MARKET INCREASE IN SETTLER VIOLENCE IN THE WEST BANK, IT INCREASED AGAIN AT THE IRAN WAR, AND AT THAT TIME, WHAT WE HEARD A LOT FROM TOP ISRAELI OFFICIALS, INCLUDING THE PRIME MINISTER, WAS TRYING TO PAINT THIS SETTLER VIOLENCE AS A FRINGE PHENOMENON, THE WORK OF 100 TO 150 JUVENILE DELINQUENTS, BUT THE REALITY IN WHAT WE FOUND AND WHAT WE TRIED TO STEP BACK AND SHOW HERE IS THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE VIOLENT ACTIONS OF SOME OF THESE SETTLERS ARE THEN REINFORCED BY ISRAELI GOVERNMENT'S ACTION THAT ULTIMATELY IS CHANGING THE REALITY ON THE FACE OF THE WEST BANK FOR MANY DECADES TO COME.

FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, THESE ATTACKS HAVE BEEN AN INESCAPABLE REALITY FOR PALESTINIANS IN THE TOWNS OF [ INAUDIBLE ].

ISRAELI SETTLERS, OFTEN DESCENDING FROM A HILLTOP OUTPOST HAS BROKEN WINDOWS, SET HOMES ON FIRE, AND BEATEN LOCAL RESIDENTS.

[ INAUDIBLE ] [ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> Reporter: HE HAS BEEN A MEDIC HERE FOR 25 YEARS, WITNESSING THAT SETTLER VIOLENCE UP CLOSE.

AS WE ARE DRIVING THROUGH THE TOWN, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE EVERY 20 SECONDS OR SO, HE IS STOPPING TO POINT OUT ANOTHER PLACE WHERE SETTLER ATTACK TOOK PLACE.

FOR AS LONG AS HE HAS DRIVEN HIS AMBULANCE, THIS HOSTED HERE, ILLEGALLY, UNDER BOTH INTERNATIONAL AND ISRAELI LAW, BUT THAT CHANGED IN DECEMBER WHEN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT RETROACTIVELY LEGALIZED IT.

ISRAEL'S FINANCE MINISTER, WHO DIRECTED THE APPROVAL PROCESS, WAS AMONG THE FIRST TO SHOW UP AT THE NEWLY MINTED SETTLEMENT, WHICH IS STILL CONSIDERED ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW.

BUT THE VIOLENCE DIDN'T STOP.

IT INTENSIFIED.

ESH KODESH IS ONE OF 100 FOR NEW SETTLEMENTS APPROVED BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SINCE 2023.

IN JUST THIS AREA ALONE, ESH KODESH IS ONE OF SIX NEW SETTLEMENTS, FIVE OF WHICH WERE PREVIOUSLY ILLEGAL OUTPOSTS.

SETTLERS HAVE ESTABLISHED HUNDREDS OF THESE OUTPOSTS OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, AFFECTING DOZENS OF PALESTINIAN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE WEST BANK.

THAT'S BECAUSE WHERE THERE ARE OUTPOSTS, THERE IS ALMOST ALWAYS VIOLENCE.

ATTACKS AGAINST PALESTINIANS HAVE SURGED, DOUBLING IN THE LAST THREE YEARS.

HE IS ALL TOO FAMILIAR WITH THAT REALITY.

[ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> HE SAYS HE WATCHES THE SECURITY CAMERA, HIS TWO HOMES THERE, 24 HOURS A DAY.

>> THREE MONTHS AGO, ISRAELI SETTLERS FORCED HIM TO PLEAD THE HOMES HE BUILT FOR HIS FAMILY.

>> WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU WENT BACK?

[ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> THAT NEARLY HAPPENED LAST MONTH AFTER THE ISRAELI MILITARY ACTED ON A SUPREME COURT ORDER TO RETURN THE [ INAUDIBLE ] TO THEIR HOME.

MORE THAN 100 SETTLERS ATTACKED, HURLING STONES AND SETTING FIRES.

[ INAUDIBLE ] SEES IT AS YET MORE EVIDENCE OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO SUPPORT FOR VIOLENCE.

[ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> IT IS A CYCLE OF IMPUNITY TUBASI FIRST EXPERIENCED 25 YEARS AGO WHEN HE SAYS HE WAS SHOT BY AN ISRAELI SETTLERS NEAR THE ESH KODESH OUTPOST.

[ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> Reporter: FAX ON THE GROUND BEAR THAT OUT.

A MONTH AFTER THE GOVERNMENT LEGALIZED ESH KODESH, SETTLERS ESTABLISHED NEW OUTPOSTS AND VIOLENCE SURGED.

WE SAW FIRSTHAND HOW SETTLERS BESIEGED ANOTHER HOME IN THE AREA.

ISRAELI MILITARY DEPLOYED TROOPS, BUT FAILED TO CLEAR OUT THE SETTLERS.

THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER HAS CONDEMNED THE VIOLENCE, BUT HE HAS ALSO DOWNPLAYED IT.

>> THE SETTLER VIOLENCE IS A TREMENDOUS HOAX, NOT BECAUSE THERE ISN'T --IT'S NOT SETTLERS ACTUALLY, IT'S ABOUT 150, 200 JUVENILE DELINQUENTS WHO ARE DOING THIS.

>> Reporter: NETANYAHU'S GOVERNMENT, THE MOST RIGHT WING IN ISRAEL'S HISTORY, HAS EMBOLDENED THE SETTLERS, FUNNELING MORE THAN SIX BILLION DOLLARS TO SETTLEMENTS, INCLUDING 450 MILLION TO SUPPORT NEWLY LEGALIZED OUTPOSTS.

AS MINISTERS OF DEFENSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY HAVE WEAKENED LAW ENFORCEMENT OF JEWISH VIOLENCE AGAINST PALESTINIANS, WITH ONLY 6% OF CASES LEADING TO AN INDICTMENT.

THE COLLEAGUE WAS SHOT AND KILLED WHILE DRIVING THIS AMBULANCE.

HE SAYS NO ONE WAS EVER ARRESTED, AND THE ATTACKS CONTINUE.

[ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> Reporter: HE SAYS MUCH OF IT CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE GOVERNMENTS OUTPOST LEGALIZATION.

[ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> Reporter: THE CYCLE IS NOW REPEATING ITSELF ACROSS THE WEST BANK.

SETTLER PLAYBOOK NOW WELL ESTABLISHED.

>> IS SO, JEREMY, YOU SAY THE SETTLER PLAYBOOK NOW WELL ESTABLISHED.

YOU SEE THE ESSENTIALLY GROWING PARIAH STATUS OF ISRAEL WITH VARIOUS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES COMPLAINING, DOING, YOU KNOW, ALL SORTS OF THINGS LIKE SANCTIONS ON CERTAIN THE SETTLER PRODUCTS, ET CETERA.

INTERNALLY, ALL SORTS OF FORMER SECURITY AND POLITICIANS AND DEFENSE OFFICIALS WRITING TO THE PRIME MINISTER TO TELL HIM TO STOP THIS, THAT IT IS ETHNIC CLEANSING, THAT IT DESTROYS THE CHARACTER OF ISRAEL.

IS THAT MAKING ANY IMPACT?

>> WELL, IT DOESN'T REALLY SEEM TO BE CHANGING THE BIG PICTURE ON THE GROUND IN THE WEST BANK.

I MEAN, WE HAVE WATCHED AS THIS SETTLER VIOLENCE, RIGHT NOW IN PARTICULAR, [ INAUDIBLE ] AND THE WEST BANK IN PARTICULAR IS ONLY INCREASING.

WE SAW LAST WEEK, FOR EXAMPLE, A WASHINGTON POST PHOTOGRAPHER WHO WAS ATTACKED.

TODAY, WE SAW A NUMBER OF JEWISH-AMERICAN ACTIVISTS WHO WERE WITH PALESTINIANS ON THE GROUND, THEY WERE DETAINED BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY, AND SO, THE KIND OF BROADER POLICY OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT CERTAINLY IS NOT CHANGING.

WE HAVE SEEN HERE AND THERE, EFFORTS BY THE ISRAELI MILITARY TO CRACKDOWN ON SOME OF THAT VIOLENCE, BUT USUALLY ONLY HAPPENS AFTER WE SEE HIGH PROFILE INCIDENTS SUCH AS THE ATTACK ON THE WASHINGTON POST PHOTOJOURNALIST LAST WEEK, WHEN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATS ARE ATTACKED, THEN YOU SEE ACTIONS LIKE TODAY WHERE THE ISRAELI MILITARY COMES IN AND DETAINS DOZENS OF FOREIGN ACTIVISTS WHO HAVE COME TO STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE PALESTINIANS, AND IT SHOWS THAT THE BROADER POLICY OF THIS GOVERNMENT REMAINS UNCHANGED, SO IT SEEMS THE ONLY WAY THAT POLICY IS GOING TO CHANGE IN THE WEST BANK, AND THAT THE REALITY ON THE GROUND IS GOING TO CHANGE, IS IF THERE IS A NEW ISRAELI GOVERNMENT FOLLOWING THESE ELECTIONS SLATED TO TAKE PLACE NEXT WEEK.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HEARD FROM SOME OF THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATES WHO HAVE BEEN MUCH FIRMER IN THEIR DENUNCIATION OF THE SETTLER VIOLENCE THAT WE HAVE SEEN ON THE GROUND THAN THE CURRENT ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER, BENJAMIN NETANYAHU.

AND CERTAINLY, WE CAN EXPECT THAT IF A NEW GOVERNMENT COMES INTO PLACE, ONE FOR EXAMPLE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE LED BY THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATE, THEN YOU WOULD SEE SOME CHANGES ON THE GROUND, BUT FOR NOW, MUCH OF THE OUTCRY DOESN'T SEEM TO BE SHIFTING THIS CURRENT ISRAELI GOVERNMENT'S POSITION.

>> AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, AS WE KNOW, HAS OPENLY ENDORSED NETANYAHU AND CALLED ON ISRAELIS TO VOTE FOR HIM AS THE BEST GUARANTOR OF ISRAELI SECURITY.

BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT ACCORDING TO THE NEW YORK TIMES, A KEY AIDE TO THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR MIKE HUCKABEE HAS ESSENTIALLY BEEN SENDING VERY ROSY PICTURES AND DOCUMENTS OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON ON THE GROUND UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO THE UNITED STATES, BASICALLY SAYING, WELL, I AM PARAPHRASING, IT IS ALL GOING PRETTY WELL.

SORT OF A DISTORTED PICTURE IN MY OPINION OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON THE GROUND.

THE IDEA THAT NETANYAHU CAST DOUBT ON WHETHER HEIDI LEVINE, THE AMERICAN PHOTOGRAPHER, WAS ACTUALLY ATTACKED, WHEN THE VIDEO SHOWS IT CLEARLY, REALLY GIVES YOU THE IDEA OF AN IMPUNITY THAT IS THERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND YOU KNOW, THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR, MIKE HUCKABEE, IS AN INTERESTING FIGURE IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS, BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, HE IS SOMEONE WHO FOR YEARS, FOR DECADES EVEN, BEFORE HE BECAME THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL, STOOD IN LOCKSTEP WITH THE ISRAELI SETTLER MOVEMENT, SUPPORTED THE ESTABLISHMENT AND THE GROWTH OF ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS IN THE WEST BANK, AND HE HAS CONTINUED TO EXPRESS THAT SUPPORT AS THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL.

IN FACT, HE FAMOUSLY REFERS TO THE WEST BANK AS JUDEA AND SAMARIA, THE BIBLICAL TERM THAT IS OFTEN USED BY JEWISH SETTLERS IN THIS AREA TO REFER TO THAT TERRITORY.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE ALSO SEEN MIKE HUCKABEE COME OUT AND ANNOUNCE SOME OF THIS SETTLER VIOLENCE IN VERY STRONG TERMS, CALLING IT TERRORISM, CALLING IT CRIMINAL ACTS AND THUGGERY THAT MUST BE ACTED UPON BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

BUT HUCKABEE OFTEN SEEMS TO ACCEPT AT FACE VALUE WHEN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SAYS THAT IT IS CRACKING DOWN ON A CERTAIN INCIDENTS ARE GOING TO ARREST A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SETTLERS WHO CARRIED OUT A VIOLENT ATTACK, THERE ISN'T REALLY MUCH OF AN IMPACT FROM HIS STANDPOINT TO THE BROADER POLICY OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

IN FACT, ASKED HIM ABOUT THIS A COUPLE MONTHS AGO WHEN YOU WENT TO VISIT A PALESTINIAN COMMUNITY IN THE WEST BANK AND HE BASICALLY SAID THAT HE BELIEVES HE ULTIMATELY HAS LIMITED AND WANTS WITH THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, EVEN THOUGH WE KNOW THAT THE U.S.

GOVERNMENT IS THE LARGEST PROVIDER OF SECURITY AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

>> WOW, THAT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE.

I MEAN, IF ANYBODY HAS INFLUENCE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO USE IT.

BUT LET ME ASK ANOTHER QUESTION, EXACTLY ABOUT GAZA AND IT'S ABOUT THE SEVENTH OF OCTOBER.

THERE ARE REPORTS, AS YOU KNOW, BY NADAV EARLIER THIS YEAR ABOUT NETANYAHU ASKING HIS QATARI INTERLOCUTORS TO INCREASE FUNDING FOR HAMAS, WHICH WAS MEANT TO SORT OF KEEP THEM PAYING SALARIES AND ALL THE REST OF IT IN GAZA.

WHAT WASN'T REALLY FOCUSED ON, ACCORDING TO SOURCES WHO I'M TALKING TO, WAS THAT THE QATARI OFFICIAL TOLD DAVID, THE HEAD OF THE MOSSAD, WHO IS MAKING THIS REQUEST FROM NETANYAHU, THAT IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

ANYWAY, ISRAEL, APPARENTLY, ACCORDING TO THE SOURCE, INSISTED AND IT DID HAPPEN.

AND THEN WE SAW WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th.

IS THIS --HAVING AN IMPRESSION, IS IT PART OF THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN, ARE PEOPLE IN ISRAEL CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR PRIME MINISTER HAVING UP TO THE PAYMENTS, DESPITE QATARI WARNINGS, WE UNDERSTAND, TO HAMAS, JUST BEFORE OCTOBER 7th?

X IT IS CERTAINLY AN ISSUE THAT A NUMBER OF THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATES HAVE SEIZED UPON, POINTING TO THE FACT THAT THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER EFFECTIVELY HELPED TO PROP UP HAMAS IN THE GAZA STRIP THROUGH THOSE PAYMENTS FOR YEARS, WITH THE BELIEF THAT HE COULD EFFECTIVELY KEEP HAMAS IN CHECK, AND THAT THERE WOULD NOT BE THE KIND OF MASSIVE EXPLOSION THAT WE SAW ON OCTOBER 7th.

THAT OBVIOUSLY PROVED TO BE, YOU KNOW, AN INCORRECT ASSUMPTION AND ASSESSMENT BY THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER, SO A NUMBER OF CANDIDATES HAVE POINTED THAT OUT.

IT IS ONE OF A MYRIAD OF ISSUES THAT FALL INTO THE BROADER BUCKET OF WHAT KIND OF RESPONSIBILITY DOES BENJAMIN NETANYAHU HAVE FOR THE SECURITY FAILURES LEADING UP TO OCTOBER 7th, AND WITHIN THAT BUCKET ALSO FITS THE VARIOUS WARNINGS THAT CAME FROM EGYPT AND FROM THE UAE REPORTEDLY IN THE WEEKS BEFORE THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS, THAT HAMAS WAS PREPARING SOMETHING.

AND OF COURSE, WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER KNEW AND WHEN ON THE EVE AND ON THE MORNING OF THOSE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS.

BUT BY AND LARGE, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THIS ELECTION HAS BECOME A REFERENDUM ON THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER, VERY CLOSELY TIED, OF COURSE, TO THOSE SECURITY FAILURES THAT LED UP TO OCTOBER 7th.

IT IS THE WAY THAT THE OPPOSITION CANDIDATES HAVE FRAMED IT, BUT FRANKLY, IT IS ALSO HOW THE PRIME MINISTER AND HIS SUPPORTERS HAVE FRAMED IT AS WELL, AS HE HAS TRIED TO TALK ALL THAT HE HAS DONE FOR ISRAEL'S SECURITY IN THE THREE YEARS SINCE THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS, AND SO NEXT WEEK, AS THE ISRAELIS HEAD TO THE POLLS, IT WILL BE THEIR FIRST OPPORTUNITY FOR SOME MEASURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER, AND ULTIMATELY, THE KIND OF REFLECT THE ENORMOUS SHIFT THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THIS COUNTRY FOLLOWING THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK, THE TRAUMAS THAT HAVE FOLLOWED SINCE FOR THE ISRAELI PUBLIC, AND OF COURSE, THE BROADER IMPACT THAT ALL OF THIS HAS HAD ON THE REGION AT LARGE.

>> EXACTLY, AND WE WILL BE FOLLOWING YOUR COVERAGE OF THE ELECTION, AS YOU SAY, BARELY A WEEK AWAY NOW.

JEREMY DIAMOND, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>>> MICHAEL DOUGLAS IS HOLLYWOOD ROYALTY, BUT BEING THE SON OF KIRK DOUGLAS IS NO EASY BURDEN TO BEAR.

HE WAS THE SWASHBUCKLING STAR OF SPARTACUS, AND IT MEANT THAT DOUGLAS HAD TO FIGHT TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS AN ACTOR AND A PRODUCER ON HIS OWN MERIT.

AND CHALLENGE EXCEPTED.

LOOK AT THE CREDITS.

ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST, THE CHINA SYNDROME, FATAL ATTRACTION, A STRING OF MASSIVE HITS THAT HELPED SHAPE THE CULTURAL ZEITGEIST, LIKE WITH THIS UNFORGETTABLE SCENE FROM OLIVER STONE'S WALL STREET.

>> THE POINT IS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THAT GREED, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, IS GOOD.

GREED IS RIGHT.

GREED WORKS.

GREED CLARIFIES, CUTS THROUGH, AND CAPTURES THE ESSENCE OF THE EVOLUTIONARY SPIRIT.

>> OH, BOY.

WELL, NOW DOUGLAS HAS LAID OUT HIS EXTRAORDINARY LIFE AND ALMOST 500 PAGES OF CANDOR, HUMOR, AND MORE THAN A LITTLE WISDOM.

HE CALLS HIS MEMOIR ONE HELL OF A RIDE AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT THE HIGHLIGHTS AND MAYBE SOME LOW POINTS.

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, REALLY GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON POINT >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHRISTIANE, WAS SUCH A PLEASURE TO BE ABLE TO TALK WITH YOU.

>> AND YOU, TOO, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THIS BOOK.

I WANT TO READ A LITTLE BIT OF THE START.

HE BASICALLY SAY IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT MY LIFE AND SAY MICHAEL, YOU ARE ONE LUCKY YOU WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

ALSO, IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT MY LIFE AND SAY YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH A HELL OF A LOT, THAT WOULD ALSO BE TRUE.

SO, WHERE'S THE BALANCE, ONE LUCKY OR BEEN THROUGH A HELL OF A LOT, OR IT'S BOTH?

>> IT'S BOTH.

ONE LUCKY SORT OF HAS THE SENSE THAT IT WASN'T REALLY ANYTHING I DID, AND I WAS JUST FORTUNATE ENOUGH, I GUESS MAYBE IT'S THAT YEAR OF NEPOTISM BABIES THAT GOES AROUND.

SO, I WORKED HARD, AND THE ONE LUCKY WE WERE THINKING ABOUT BEING THE TITLE, BUT "ONE HELLUVA RIDE" SEEMS MORE LIKELY, AND IT HAS BEEN --I HAVE HAD A LOT OF GOOD TIMES, AND SOME OF THE BAD.

BUT I TRULY NEVER ANTICIPATED THAT THIS BOOK WOULD BE QUITE THE HIT THAT IT HAS BECOME.

IT IS JUST A JOY AND A TREMENDOUS SURPRISE AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE.

>> SO, MICHAEL, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS THEN?

BECAUSE IT HAS BECOME A HIT.

YOUR INTERVIEWS WHICH I HAVE LISTENED TO IN THE ROLLOUT HAVE BEEN REALLY FUNNY, ENTERTAINING, ENGAGING.

I MEAN, IT'S AN OLD-STYLE HOLLYWOOD STORY.

AND I GUESS PEOPLE LOVE THAT STUFF.

AND YOU ARE VERY CANDID.

>> YES, YEAH, I AM.

I THINK MAYBE IT'S A COMBINATION.

I STARTED OUT WANTING TO DO ALMOST LIKE A TEXTBOOK ABOUT PRODUCING.

AND I TOOK LIKE 10 OF MY MOVIES AND HAD 10 DIFFERENT CHAPTERS TALKING ABOUT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, FRUITION, AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT A PRODUCER DOES.

AND AS I WAS TELLING THOSE STORIES, INDIVIDUAL MOVIES, THEY ALSO INVOLVED A LOT OF PERSONAL INTERACTIONS.

AND SO, UM, I TOOK A DEEP BREATH AND REALIZED THAT IF I REALLY WAS GOING TO DO A BIOGRAPHY, THAT I HAD TO TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

AND SO, I THINK THE BOOK HAS A COMBINATION OF REALLY INSIGHTS INTO MOVIEMAKING AND BEHIND-THE- SCENES ON A LOT OF BIG, SUCCESSFUL MOVIES, AS WELL AS SOME, YOU KNOW, KISS AND TELL ALL, I GUESS.

A COUPLE OF SITUATIONS WITH INTERACTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED ABOUT, FOR INSTANCE KATHLEEN TURNER AFTER 40 YEARS.

PEOPLE SAY, OH, I ALWAYS KNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING GOING ON, YOU KNOW, SHARING THAT.

SO, I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF THE TWO, AND ALSO BEING VULNERABLE ENOUGH TO SHOW YOUR FOIBLES AND YOUR OWN ISSUES I DEALT WITH IN TERMS OF DRUGS AND ALCOHOL, UM, IT MAKES A COMBINATION THAT PEOPLE CAN -- >> ALL RIGHT.

THERE IS A LOT TO ASK YOU ABOUT, BUT JUST QUICKLY, YOU ARE A GENTLEMAN, DID YOU ASK KATHLEEN TURNER FOR PERMISSION?

>> I DID.

I ASKED BOTH LADIES, I ASKED FOR THEIR PERMISSION, FOR SURE.

>> OKAY, SO YOU DEDICATE THIS BOOK TO YOUR FAMILY, AND WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THE WIDER FAMILY, BUT I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS EVERY TIME YOU STEP IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA TO BE ASKED ABOUT YOUR CAREER.

IT WAS, AS YOU WRITE, "NOT EASY BEING THE SON OF SPARTACUS. "

YOUR FATHER WAS A MASSIVE MOVIE HERO AROUND THE WORLD.

AND JUST TELL US WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO STEP OUT OF HIS SHADOW AND TO ACTUALLY TRY TO ACT, YOU KNOW, WITH A FATHER WAS ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS ACTORS AT THE TIME?

>> WELL, THAT WAS THE ISSUE.

I MEAN, YOU ALL REMEMBER KIRK DOUGLAS, HE WAS LARGER THAN LIFE, AND IT WASN'T EVEN A QUESTION OF BEING AN ACTOR, IT WAS CAN I EVER BE THE MAN THAT MY FATHER IS?

HE WAS SO DYNAMIC, SO ENERGETIC, AND HE ALSO HAD A PRETTY STRONG TEMPER.

SO, IT TOOK A WHILE.

I WAS PRETTY WITHDRAWN AS A KID, NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT BEING AN ACTOR, IT WAS THE LAST THING I EVER WANTED TO BE, PROBABLY BECAUSE I THOUGHT OF IT AS BEING ALWAYS EITHER MY MOTHER WHO IS AN ACTRESS OR MY FATHER BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM ME TO THEIR JOBS.

SO, IT WAS A LONG HAUL, AND FOR A LONG TIME, I STRUGGLED WITH MY CONFIDENCE.

AND I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, IT WASN'T REALLY UNTIL THE YEAR OF FATAL ATTRACTION AND WALL STREET COMING OUT, THE SAME YEAR, AND GETTING NOMINATED, THEN WINNING THE OSCAR FOR WALL STREET, THAT I FINALLY SORT OF STEPPED OUT OF THE SHADOW OF DAD.

>> OKAY, SO, THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE ONE OF THE OTHER LINES I READ, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY --ACTUALLY REALLY INTERESTING FOR TODAY, YOU WRITE, " I SPENT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF MY CAREER PLAYING SOME VERSION OF THE MODERN FLOOR AMERICAN MALE, " AND YOU JUST MENTIONED WALL STREET, THE GREED IS GOOD THING, FATAL ATTRACTION AND OTHERS, BASIC INSTINCT, WHATEVER.

TELL ME ABOUT THE FLAWED AMERICAN MALE, WHY YOU WERE DRAWN TO THAT?

>> IN MY FATHER'S GENERATION POST-WORLD WAR II, THERE WERE HEROES AND VILLAINS.

IT WAS A CARRYOVER FROM THE WAR, THEY WERE WHITE HATS OR BLACK CATS.

I GREW UP IN COLLEGE IN THE 60s WITH THE VIETNAM WAR GOING ON, AND MY LIFE, I WAS PERCEIVED AS MUCH OF A GRAY AREA.

THERE WAS MORAL AMBIGUITY IN A LOT OF AREAS.

THERE WAS FRUSTRATIONS, LACK OF IDENTITY BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN AND WHAT THEIR ROLES ARE, AND THE WAR ITSELF.

SO, I GUESS I WAS SOMEBODY WHO READ A LOT OF NEWSPAPERS AND CURRENT EVENTS.

WAS ATTRACTED TO PROJECTS THAT PRESENTED A MORAL DILEMMA.

AND WHAT THEY MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE OR NOT?

AND I GUESS BASED ON THE SUCCESS OF A LOT OF THOSE FILMS, A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IDENTIFY WITH THAT, TOO.

>> MICHAEL, DO YOU THINK IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME AS YOU LOOK BACK AND ALL THE CONVERSATION ABOUT A TITLED MAN AND, YOU KNOW, RICH MAKES RIGHT, AND TOXIC MASCULINITY, THAT SOME OF THOSE CHARACTERS, I MEAN, INADVERTENTLY PERHAPS, GAVE PERMISSION FOR THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR?

>> I WOULD [ INAUDIBLE ].

I THOUGHT IT GAVE A WARNING MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, FATAL ATTRACTION, I PLAYED AN ADULTERER AND WAS AN EXAMPLE OF THE WORST NIGHTMARE THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN IF YOU ENDED UP HAVING AN AFFAIR, AND ALL MY MALE FRIENDS, YOU KNOW, SAID THANK YOU VERY MUCH, REALLY APPRECIATE IT, YOU KNOW?

THAT WAS THAT.

AND I REMEMBER GOING TO FRANCE AND HAVING THE PICTURE SCREENED IN FRANCE, AND ALL THE CRITICS SAID, WELL YOU KNOW, IN FRANCE, WE ALL HAVE AFFAIRS AND RELATIONSHIPS, THIS WILL NOT MEAN MUCH.

EXCEPT EVERY FRENCH WIFE BROUGHT THEIR HUSBAND TO THAT FILM TO SHOW THEM WHAT THE RESULTS COULD BE.

SO, NO, I --I CHERISH THE FACT THAT SO MANY OF MY PICTURES HAD FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

AND HOPEFULLY FOR TWO HOURS OF VERY GOOD ENTERTAINMENT, AND THAT YOU LEFT THE THEATER AND YOU ARE LEFT THINKING ABOUT IT AND THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE THERE.

>> YEAH, WELL, THIS CERTAINLY WERE AMAZINGLY ENTERTAINING AND EXCELLENT.

ON A DIFFERENT ISSUE, WHICH IS CERTAINLY MORE POLITICAL AND MORE SERIOUS IN THE GEOPOLITICAL WORLD, YOU ALSO DID CHINA SYNDROME, AND THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE SAFETY AROUND A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, AND I THINK IT WAS HOW MANY DAYS AFTER --THREE DAYS AFTER SHORTLY AFTER --12 DAYS AFTER, YEAH.

YEAH.

YOU HAD THREE MILE ISLAND.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY HOW SORT OF LIFE IMITATED ART?

OR WAS THAT WORRY WHAT PROPELLED YOU TO DO THIS FILM?

>> I BEGAN THE FILM THINKING THAT I WAS MAKING A HORROR MOVIE.

A MAN AGAINST A MACHINE.

I WAS NOT THAT FAMILIAR WITH NUCLEAR POWER.

BUT DOING A RESEARCH FOR THE FILM, WE WERE ABLE TO ACQUIRE TWO GE SPECIALISTS WHO HAD KIND OF LOST FAITH AND COME OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE TO GIVE US THE SORT OF TECHNICAL [ INAUDIBLE ] THAT WE NEEDED FOR THE PICTURE.

AND WE WERE UNDER A LOT OF CRITICISM.

JANE FONDA AT THAT TIME KNOWN AS HANOI JANE, FELT IT WAS VERY CONTROVERSIAL, AND PEOPLE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN THE PICTURE AT ALL, ALTHOUGH IT WAS A COMMERCIAL SUCCESS WHEN IT OPENED.

AFTER THE MOVIE OPENED, THREE MILE ISLAND HAPPENS, AND THERE WAS A POSSIBLE NUCLEAR MELTDOWN WERE VERY CLOSE TO IT, AND FOR ME, CHRISTIANE, IT WAS AN EPIPHANY.

IT WAS AS CLOSE TO A RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE AS I COULD HAVE IMAGINED.

AND IT WAS THE BEGINNING FOR ME OF THE BIGGEST CAUSE OF MY LIFE, WHICH IS THE ELIMINATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

AND I JOINED THE UNITED NATIONS IN 1988 AS A UNITED NATIONS MESSENGER OF PEACE.

FOCUSED ON DISARMAMENT AND I AM UNFORTUNATELY SAD TO SAY THAT I DO NOT THINK IN MY LIFETIME I AM GOING TO SEE THE ELIMINATION OF WEAPONS, ALTHOUGH I HAVE BEEN FLIRTING WITH THIS IDEA WITH THE UKRAINE-RUSSIAN SITUATION AND PEACE, AND MIGHT THIS BE A MOMENT WHERE PUTIN AND PRESIDENT TRUMP, IN THE SPIRIT OF THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE, WILL DRAMATICALLY REDUCE THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS, JUST AS UKRAINE GAVE UP ITS WEAPONS.

>> YEAH, WELL, AS YOU KNOW, THE NEW START TREATY EXPIRED, AND TRUMPET BEFORE HAD PULLED OUT OF ANOTHER, I THINK THE INF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE GOOD IF PUTIN AND TRUMP WERE REAGAN AND GORBACHEV, WHICH AS YOU REMEMBER, DID START THAT PROCESS 40 YEARS AGO.

CAN I JUST ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE A GEOPOLITICAL GEEK AS WELL, DO YOU WONDER SOMETIMES, GIVEN OUR DEPENDENCE STILL ON FOSSIL FUELS, GIVEN HOW IT IS AFFECTING THE WHOLE WORLD ECONOMY NOW, RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE, AMERICA'S INVASION OF IRAN, AND REALLY MAKING US REALIZE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE GONE ON DOWN THE ROAD OF SUSTAINABLE MUCH, MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY.

DO YOU THINK THAT THE FEAR AROUND THREE MILE ISLAND AND THAT KIND OF CATASTROPHE PREVENTED THE WORLD FROM REALLY DEVELOPING PRETTY SAFE AND CLEAN NUCLEAR ENERGY?

>> IT WAS CERTAINLY PARTIALLY RESPONSIBLE, BUT WE HAD AN ISSUE OF WASTE MATERIALS, WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN RESOLVED.

NOW, THE NEW MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX IS THE IDEA OF --AND I MUST SAY, I HAVE HAD TO CHANGE MY POSITION ON NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, GIVEN THE CRISIS THAT OUR COUNTRY AND OUR WORLD IS UNDER.

TO CHANGE THAT.

SO, YEAH, I THINK IT HAD AN INFLUENCE, UNCERTAINLY, HOPEFULLY, MADE US MORE CAREFULLY ANALYZE THE USE AND THE PROTECTION FROM THEM.

>> MARK, I WANTED TO ASK YOU SOMETHING QUITE PERSONAL.

IN YOUR OPENING ANSWER TO ME, ABOUT HIS STRUGGLES AS WELL, INCLUDING WITH DRUGS.

AND YOU WERE VERY CANDID, YOU TALK ABOUT HAVING GONE INTO THERAPY AND DETOX AND ALL THE REST OF IT IN THE 1990s FOR TREATMENT.

YOU REMEMBER THEN THAT THE TABLOIDS, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE UK, SAID THAT YOU WERE BEING TREATED FOR SEX ADDICTION.

CAN YOU JUST TELL US WHAT THE HECK IS THE TRUTH?

>> A -- [ LAUGHTER ] WELL, WITHOUT GOING TOO DEEPLY INTO THE BRITISH TABLOIDS, WHICH ARE AN AMAZING GROUP, NO, I WAS IN REHAB FOR ALCOHOL AND DRUGS, AND IT WAS AT A TIME --IT WAS RIGHT AFTER BASIC INSTINCT, THE MOVIE, AND SOME ASTUTE TABLOID EDITOR OVER THERE SAID, I KNOW, SEX ADDICTION, BECAME THE NEW MODE.

AND THAT HAS BEEN AROUND MY YOKE FOR MY 30 --30 YEARS.

BUT THAT WASN'T PART OF IT.

BUT I WAS OUTED BY A COUPLE OF OTHER PATIENTS THAT WERE IN THE REHAB CENTER, THAT I WAS IN AT THE TIME, AND STARTED COOPERATING WITH THE TABLOIDS, AND THEY BROKE A DEEP PROMISE THAT PEOPLE MAKE WHEN YOU GO IN FOR NONDISCLOSURES AND TO TALK ABOUT ISSUES, BUT THAT WAS NOT ONE OF THEM.

>> YEAH.

SO, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT WANTS ONE, AND THAT IS, YOU KNOW, FULL DISCLOSURE WITH FRIENDS, I SAW YOU IN NEW YORK WHEN WE WERE LIVING NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER, WHEN YOU ARE DIAGNOSED WITH YOUR STAGE FOUR CANCER.

AND YOU HAD BEEN SUCCESSFULLY TREATED.

HOW --HOW ARE YOU, FIRST AND FOREMOST, AND HOW DID YOU LIVE THROUGH THAT REALLY DIFFICULT TIME?

>> WELL, YOU SURVIVE.

I WAS MISDIAGNOSED FOR A LONG TIME, UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT I HAD IT, AND BY THAT TIME, IT WAS STAGE FOUR CANCER, AND AT THE SAME TIME AROUND THERE, TWO GOOD FRIENDS OF MINE, NICK ASHFORD OF ASHFORD SIMPSON AND ANOTHER AFTER DIED FROM THE CANCER.

SO, IT WAS A TOUGH CALL.

I AM EXTERNALLY --INTERNALLY GRATEFUL TO MY KIDS AT A VERY EARLY AGE, WHO TOOK A VERY CLOSE ROLE OF SUPPORT AS I LAID ON THE COUCH WITH THE CHEMO AND THE RADIATION AFTERWARDS, AND TO CATHERINE.

AND I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH THAT MY PROCESS WORKED OUT AND I AM IN REMISSION.

I AM 16 YEARS LATER AND NO SIGN OF IT.

BUT IT WAS --IT CREATED THE BEGINNING OF MY THIRD ACT, CHRISTIANE, AND IT MADE ME THINK ABOUT A LOT OF OTHER THINGS, OTHER THAN MY CAREER, SO AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE, UM, MY FAMILY AND MY FRIENDS ARE THE CLOSEST THING TO ME, AND THE BOOK, UM, "ONE HELLUVA RIDE," HAS GIVEN ME MY MEMORY BACK, IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO GO BACK AND RESEARCH AND PICK UP A LOT OF MEMORIES THAT I DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE.

>> I LOVE THAT.

NOW, BECAUSE YOU WERE THE SON OF A VERY FAMOUS FATHER, AND BECAUSE BOTH OF YOUR CHILDREN, DYLAN AND [ INAUDIBLE ], ARE IN THEATER AND FILM, AND YOU KNOW, PERFORMING ARTS, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

>> I CAN'T BELIEVE, YOU KNOW, BEING A THIRD GENERATION AND KNOWING WHAT I FELT AS A SECOND, BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS I DIDN'T WANT TO BE AN ACTOR.

I WAS IN COLLEGE, HAVING TO DECLARE A MAJOR, AND I THOUGHT THEATER WOULD BE THE EASIEST THING, SO I BECAME A THEATER MAJOR, THEN I STARTED ACTING, AND I HAD TERRIBLE STAGE FRIGHT.

AND MY FATHER CAME TO MY FIRST SHOW AND HE SAID, SON, YOU WERE TERRIBLE.

AND SO, HE WAS SO RELIEVED HE DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.

BUT WITH DYLAN AND CARYS, THEY STARTED ACTING WHEN THEY WERE IN THIRD GRADE.

THEY WENT TO SUMMER THEATERS EVERY YEAR.

THEY HAVE THE JOY, THE JOY OF ACTING.

THIS SEE, OBVIOUSLY, THEIR GRANDPARENTS AND THEIR MOTHER AND THEIR FATHER, BUT THEY HAVE THIS JOY, WHICH GIVES ME SUCH A PLEASURE.

SO, I --I KNOW THEY BOTH ARE GOOD, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THAN THAT, THEY JUST LOVE ACTING, WHATEVER IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> AW, THAT'S WONDERFUL.

WELL, I, GROWING UP IN IRAN, GOT TO KNOW YOU THROUGH THE STREETS OF SAN FRANCISCO, YEP, IT PLAYED ON TELEVISION IN IRAN.

SO, GREAT TO HAVE YOU, "ONE HELLUVA RIDE," MICHAEL DOUGLAS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, BUT I WANT TO SAY BRIEFLY TO YOU, THAT I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING YOU FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS.

I APPRECIATE YOU AND I KNOW YOUR PERSON AND I LOVE YOUR INFLUENCE FROM THE VERY, VERY BEGINNING.

I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW BRAVE YOU WERE AS A COMBAT REPORTER AND THE YEARS THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN.

I DON'T LISTEN TO ANYBODY MORE ABOUT INTERNATIONAL NEWS THAN YOU.

I AM A TREMENDOUS IN MY ROOM OF YOU, YOU'VE DONE AN EXTRAORDINARY JOB, AND I WISH YOU THE BEST, WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE TO DO NEXT.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, MICHAEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, THANK YOU.

>> NOW, OPENAI SAYS IT'S ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS SOLVED A MATHEMATICS PROBLEM THAT HAVE STUMPED HUMANS FOR DECADES, BUT AS A HIGH GETS BETTER AT FINDING THESE ANSWERS, OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES THAT THE REAL VALUE LIES IN THE HUMAN JOURNEY TO SOLVE THEM.

NFL PLAYER TURNED M.I.T.

ASSISTANT PROFESSOR JOHN URSCHEL JOINS WALTER ISAACSON, SOLVING A MATH PROBLEM OF HIS OWN.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND JOHN URSCHEL, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> FIRST OF ALL, CONGRATULATIONS, JOHN.

YOU HAVE JUST SOLVED A MATH PROBLEM THAT HAS BEEN DECADES, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WRESTLING WITH.

IT'S CALLED GAUSSIAN ELIMINATION.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE WHAT WE DO IN GRADE SCHOOL.

YOU LEARN HOW TO SIMPLIFY IT TO GET THE RIGHT ANSWER, BUT YOU DID IT WITH LIKE 10,000, 100,000, AND THEORETICALLY.

EXPLAIN WHAT YOU ACHIEVED AND HOW THAT COULD ACTUALLY BE USEFUL IN OUR LIVES.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, SO, IT'S NOT JUST LIKE THE ALGORITHMS WE LEARNED IN GRADE SCHOOL, IT IS THE ALGORITHMS WE LEARNED IN GRADE SCHOOL.

IT IS OFTEN CALLED THE ELIMINATION METHOD, WHERE YOU TAKE MULTIPLES OF ONE EQUATION AND SUBTRACT THEM TO ELIMINATE VARIABLES.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT OUR COMPUTERS DO WHEN WE NEED TO SOLVE A LINEAR SYSTEM, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CERTAIN UNKNOWN VARIABLES EQUAL.

THIS IS WHAT EVERY MAJOR PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE USES, AND THIS ROUTINE IS USED PROBABLY BILLIONS, TRILLIONS, MAYBE EVEN QUADRILLION'S OF TIMES A DAY.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THIS IS A SUBROUTINE AND SO MANY APPLICATIONS IN ENGINEERING, BUSINESS, AND SCIENCE, AND THE BIG QUESTION WAS IS THIS ALGORITHM STABLE?

IS THIS AN ALGORITHM WE CAN TRUST?

AND THIS OLD CONJECTURE FROM THE '90s WAS EXACTLY AIMED AT UNDERSTANDING, HOW DOES THIS ALGORITHM WORK, DOES THIS ALGORITHM WORK?

>> AND WHEN YOU FIGURED OUT HOW IT WORKS AND THE WAY IT WORKS, WAS THAT SORT OF LIKE AN AHA MOMENT?

WE HAVE SEEN A BEAUTIFUL MIND ARE ALL THESE MOVIES WERE SOMEBODY IT IS IN A PUB OR MATT DAMON IS AT A WHITEBOARD, DOING THINGS.

WAS THAT SORT OF WHAT IT WAS LIKE?

>> YEAH, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYONE ELSE, AND I CAN SAY FOR ME, THERE IS NO LIGHTBULB MOMENT WHILE YOU'RE HAVING A PINT AT THE BAR.

IT IS SLOW AND STEADY MATH PROBLEMS, AND REALLY, THE BIGGEST THING IS SLOW AND STEADY UNDERSTANDING.

>> NOW, YOUR BACKGROUND, OF COURSE, IS TOTALLY AMAZING.

AND LAST TIME WE SPOKE ON THIS PROGRAM, YOU HAD JUST LEFT THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE, WHERE YOU WERE AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN FOR THE BALTIMORE RAVENS.

YOU WERE ALSO EMBARKING ON A PHD IN MATHEMATICS AT THE TIME, YOU HAD JUST GOTTEN MARRIED, YOU WERE HAVING CHILDREN.

HOW DOES THIS ABILITY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM IN THE PATH YOUR CAREER HAS TAKEN, HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO LEAVE PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL?

>> I THINK I CONTINUE TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT.

I BET ON MYSELF IN A REALLY BIG WAY, AND BY ALL MEASURES, IT HAS PAID OFF.

I MEAN, THINGS ARE GREAT, I AM BACK AS A PROFESSOR AT M.I.T., I'M EXACTLY WHERE I WANT TO BE.

I HAVE GOT TWO SMALL KIDS, I'M JUST ENJOYING DOING MATH, HANGING OUT WITH MY WIFE, RAISING OUR KIDS, AND YET, IT'S A REALLY NICE, COMFORTABLE LIFE.

IT IS LOW STRESS.

YOU KNOW, THE MOST STRESSFUL THING I WORRY ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I GET A PAPER CUT WHILE I AM READING A MATH PAPER.

>> WAIT A MINUTE, THE HIGHEST STRESS THE THING, BEING AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN, WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM FOOTBALL THAT MAY HAVE HELPED YOU WITH PUSHING ON IN MATH?

>> THE BIGGEST THING IS IT'S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL, YOU KNOW?

WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU KNOW, WORKING ON MATHEMATICS, TRYING TO SOLVE SOME PROBLEM, I THINK OFTEN TIMES, A LOT OF US LACKED PERSPECTIVE YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM, IF I FAIL, NOTHING BAD HAPPENS.

IF I'M STRUGGLING WITH SOMETHING, NOTHING BAD HAPPENS.

YOU KNOW, I'M SO LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY, AND WHAT DO I DO?

I JUST THINK ABOUT PROBLEMS ALL DAY, I JUST SOLVE MATH PROBLEMS, WHEREAS BEING IN THE NFL, YOU GET PAID A LOT OF MONEY, BUT THIS IS A SERIOUS, SERIOUS JOB.

IF YOU MESS UP, SOMEONE CAN REALLY GET HURT.

AND I CAN SAY THAT I AM REALLY ENJOYING RETIREMENT AND I'M JUST ENJOYING GOING TO WORK EVERY DAY, USING MY BRAIN IN FUN, INTERESTING WAYS, AND TRYING TO TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> NOW, YOU SAY YOU USED A.I.

TO SOME EXTENT AS A PARTNER TO DO ELEMENTS WHEN YOU WERE TRYING TO PROVE THIS THEORY.

TELL ME THE ROLE OF A.I.

VERSUS THE ROLE OF HUMAN INTUITION, IS THAT WHAT I SHOULD CALL IT?

>> YEAH, IT'S COMPLICATED BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS THAT ARE FALLING IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND IT'S NOT QUITE CLEAR WHAT THE EQUILIBRIUM IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

I MEAN, THESE MODERN I --A.I.

TOOLS ARE SO IN BLOOM, AND PROGRESS JUST KEEPS COMING EVERY THREE TO SIX MONTHS, IT'S A NEW BREAKTHROUGH, THEY ARE BETTER THAN THEY WERE.

AND SO, WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN A YEAR, I KNOW BETTER THAN TO MAKE SOME PREDICTION FOR JUST THE SIMPLE FACT THAT I AM CERTAINLY GOING TO BE WRONG.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF RECENT DEVELOPMENTS WHERE OPENAI HAS RELEASED SOLUTIONS TO A NUMBER OF PROBLEMS THAT THE MATHEMATICS COMMUNITY QUITE CARES ABOUT, AND WHEN THE INTERNAL MODELS THAT THEY USED BECOME PUBLICLY AVAILABLE, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING FOR THE MATHEMATICS COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT OPENAI DOING THAT.

THE FAMOUS ONE THEY DID A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WAS THE STOKES PROBLEM, WHICH I THINK INVOLVES FLUID MOTION, THAT SUDDENLY THEY SOLVED IT, BUT THEN THERE WERE MORE THAN 300 OPEN MATH PROBLEMS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WRESTLING WITH THAT OPENAI JUST SAID, BOOM, HERE IS THE SOLUTION.

WHAT DO YOU WORRY ABOUT IF ALL OF IT SUDDEN, A.I.

IS JUST SOLVING THESE THINGS?

ARE WE GOING TO LOSE SORT OF THE JOURNEY OF SOLVING THEM THAT IS UNIQUELY HUMAN?

>> YEAH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE AS A COMMUNITY AND AS A SOCIETY REALLY HAVE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH.

ONE, OKAY, THIS IS NOT THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY ON MY MIND, THIS QUESTION OF UNDERSTANDING.

WHEN YOU TRY TO PROVE SOME RESULT, MATHEMATICS --THE POINT OF BEING A MATHEMATICIAN WAS NEVER JUST TO PROVE SOME THINGS.

THE IDEA IS THE APPROVED THINGS TO KNOW THAT THERE CERTAINLY TRUE, BUT THE IMPORTANT PART IS THAT YOU SORT OF EXTRACT UNDERSTANDING FROM THEM.

SAID IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE SALTON SEA, THE JOURNEY IS THE IMPORTANT PART.

>> EXACTLY, AND WHEN THE DESTINATION JUST MAGICALLY APPEARS, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THAT JOURNEY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, SO THEY CAN BRING THAT UNDERSTANDING TO BEAR ON OTHER THINGS.

AND THE SECOND THING IS SOMETIMES, IT'S THE FACT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE PROGRESS TOWARDS SOME DESTINATION, THAT YOU DISCOVER A LOT OF IMPORTANT AND INTERESTING THINGS ALONG THE WAY.

FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT OPENAI DROPPED RELATED TO FREE PROBABILITY, THIS WAS A PROBLEM THAT A PROFESSOR MORE OR LESS CREATED A WHOLE AREA OF MATHEMATICS TO TRY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

AND THE AREA OF MATHEMATICS HE CREATED HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO BEAR ON SO MANY DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS, SO SORT OF FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM HE WAS MOTIVATED BY, THAT SOMEHOW, PROGRESS TOWARDS A PROBLEM CAN SOMETIMES BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM ITSELF.

>> WOW, THAT'S INTERESTING THAT THE JOURNEY AND THE PROGRESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JUST GIVE ME THE ANSWER.

DO YOU WORRY YOUR STUDENTS ARE GOING TO GROW UP IN AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE THEY GET THE ANSWER, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THE JOURNEY?

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND I THINK MY FOCUS AS A PROFESSOR, AS A MENTOR, IS TO TRY TO TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE TO STILL THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

TO STILL GO THROUGH THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF HOW DO I SOLVE THIS PROBLEM MYSELF, BECAUSE THE DOWNSIDE IS THE MORE THAT PEOPLE JUST PURELY RELY ON THESE TOOLS, THE LESS THEY HONE THEIR OWN ABILITY TO THINK, AND THE LESS THEY HONE THEIR OWN ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE THING THE MACHINE GIVES THEM, AND THAT IS A REALLY SCARY, SCARY SITUATION.

IF YOU IMAGINE, LET'S SAY, A GENERATION OR TWO GENERATIONS FROM NOW, YOU JUST HAVE A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT THINKING FOR THEMSELVES.

>> WHAT IS THE ROLE OF HUMAN MATHEMATICIANS IN AN ERA WHERE A.I.

IS KIND OF SOLVING, SO TO SPEAK, MANY OF THESE PROBLEMS?

>> WELL, THE FIRST QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, A.I.

IS NATURALLY TAKING A LOT OF HUMAN MATHEMATICS, A LOT OF HUMAN IDEAS, A LOT OF HUMAN INSIGHT, AND SORT OF REALLY CRANKING THEM AND SORT OF PUSHING THEM TO SORT OF THE FOR THIS BOUNDARY ON FRONTIER.

I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A PREDICTION, BUT IT IS NOT YET OBVIOUS TO ME WHAT THE LIMITS OF A.I.

MATHEMATICS ARE WITHOUT ADDITIONAL HUMAN INPUT.

IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL, A.I.

IS TOO NEW OF A TECHNOLOGY.

IT IS CLEARLY SOLVING ALL THESE PROBLEMS FOR US.

ONE QUESTION I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IS DO WE STILL NEED HUMAN INPUT?

>> WELL, THAT'S A HUGE QUESTION.

>> IT'S A HUGE QUESTION.

>> ARE YOU TEACHING YOUR STUDENTS THAT THEIR MAIN ROLE IN THE FUTURE WILL BE LEARNING HOW TO COLLABORATE AND USE THE TOOLS OF A.I., RATHER THAN JUST ATTACK THE PROBLEM THEMSELVES?

>> WELL, MY MAIN ROLE TO TEACH MY STUDENTS IS HOW TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

HAD TO TRY TO SOLVE A PROBLEM FOR THEMSELVES.

A.I.

IS DEVELOPING VERY RAPIDLY, AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THIS IS GOING TO END UP, BUT WHEREVER THIS THING DOES END UP, I DO KNOW THAT THE IMPORTANT ROLE OF A MATHEMATICIAN IS GOING TO BE TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MATHEMATICS AND TO BE ABLE TO THINK THROUGH PROBLEMS FOR THEMSELVES, SO THEY CAN DECIDE WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS TRUE, WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS NOT, WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT A PROBLEM, AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE ISN'T.

AND NO MATTER HOW ADVANCED A.I.

BECOMES, I THINK THESE ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL TOOLS AND SKILLS THAT A MATHEMATICIAN IS GOING TO NEED.

100 YEARS AGO RIGHT NOW AND 100 YEARS FROM NOW.

>> LET ME TAKE A SPECIFIC MATH PROBLEM THAT I HAVE WRESTLED WITH EVER SINCE I READ YOUR GREAT BOOK, MIND AND MATTER, THAT YOU WROTE WITH YOUR WIFE, LOUISA THOMAS, AND THERE IS A CHAPTER, TOO, ON THE THREE BODY PROBLEM, WHICH SEEMS VERY SIMPLE, WHICH IS THREE BODIES IN MOTION, LIKE THREE PLANETS IN EACH OTHER'S GRAVITATIONAL FIELD, BUT IT'S ALMOST --OR IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT THE EXACT EQUATION AS I DO THAT.

YOU WERE WORKING ON THAT PROBLEM.

TELL ME HOW THAT FITS IN NOW TO WHAT A.I.

IS DOING.

>> YEAH, SO ABSOLUTELY.

THE THREE BODY PROBLEM IS ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS PROBLEMS IN MATHEMATICS AND PHYSICS, FAMOUSLY IF YOU HAVE TWO BODIES IN MOTION, IT IS INCREDIBLY STABLE.

WE CAN SORT OF UNDERSTAND THEIR LONG-TERM TRAJECTORIES.

BUT AS SOON AS YOU ADD IN A THIRD PLANET, THE SORT OF DYNAMICS THAT COME WHAT PEOPLE OFTEN CALLED CHAOTIC IN SOME SITUATIONS.

AND UNDERSTANDING THE BEHAVIOR WHEN YOU JUST ADD A THIRD LARGE BODY, I MEAN, YOU LOOK IN THE SKY, WE HAVE MANY, MANY LARGE THINGS, BUT THE DYNAMICS BECOME SO COMPLICATED, THE MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS BECOMES QUITE DIFFERENT.

AND YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS AS HUMANS.

CERTAINLY, I IMAGINE THAT THIS A.I.

SORT OF REVOLUTION HAS ALSO HELPED.

I ACTUALLY DID NOT LOOK AT THE A.I.

DROP UNDER DYNAMICAL SYSTEMS, I WAS TOO FOCUSED LOOKING AT THINGS LIKE MATRIX MULTIPLICATION AND OTHER THINGS, BUT I BELIEVE THEY MADE -- THEY SOLVED SOMETHING RELATED TO SOMETHING CALLED THE STRONG [ INAUDIBLE ] TRAJECTORY DYNAMICAL SYSTEM, BUT I HAVEN'T READ IT.

THERE ARE 300 SOMETHING PROBLEMS, I CAN ONLY DO ONE AT A TIME, AND SO -- >> LET ME JUST SAY, IT SOLVES 300 PROBLEMS LIKE THAT, SOME OF THE HARDEST WE STILL HAVE, DOES THAT OPEN THE WAY TO 1000 MORE PROBLEMS, OR ARE WE ABOUT TO SOLVE ALL THE MAJOR PROBLEMS THERE ARE?

>> NO, NO, NO, NO.

I REALLY THINK MATH IS TRULY GENERATIVE.

PERHAPS AN ANALOGY YOU COULD MAKE AS YOU MIGHT THINK THIS MIGHT BE A [ INAUDIBLE ] MOMENT.

AND COMPUTERS MORE OR LESS SOLVED CHEST FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES, MAYBE YOU COULD SAY THE LAST SORT OF FRONTIER WAS ALPHA ZERO BRINGING SOME REALLY NEW AND NOVEL IDEAS TO CHESS.

BUT I THINK UNLIKE CHESS, YOU KNOW, MATH, WE ARE JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXPAND, CONTINUE TO HAVE IMPORTANT APPLICATIONS, CONTINUE TO BUILD IMPORTANT INFRASTRUCTURE AND UNDERSTAND THINGS.

I THINK THIS IS JUST GOING TO SORT OF LIKE FOR THE THE SPEED AT WHICH WE ARE GOING TO MOVE.

WE WERE SORT OF CLIMBED THE MOUNTAIN WITH JUST ROBES AND THINGS, AND NOW ALL THE SUDDEN, WE HAVE A HELICOPTER.

BUT STILL, THERE ARE THINGS FOR US TO EXPLORE, THINGS FOR US TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND, THE THING I'M TRYING TO FOCUS ON IS ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT OPENAI HAS RELEASED.

>> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU A DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION.

OTHER THAN THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF SOLVING MATHEMATICAL PROBLEMS FOR, SAY, ENGINEERING OR MAKING FLUIDS DO BETTER OR AIRPLANE WINGS DO BETTER, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MATHEMATICS?

>> THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, YOU HAVE ALREADY STATED ONE OF THEM.

THE SECOND IS FOR UNDERSTANDING.

AND I THINK WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING ABOUT THE SORT OF QUANTITATIVE WORLD AROUND US, AND MATHEMATICS IS A QUANTITATIVE LANGUAGE WE USE.

AND SO, UNDERSTANDING MATHEMATICS AT A MORE HOLISTIC LEVEL, I THINK IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT IS CULTURALLY IMPORTANT TO US.

THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS IT'S HARD TO KNOW BEFOREHAND WHAT MATHEMATICS IS GOING TO BE USEFUL AND WHAT MATHEMATICS WILL NOT.

I AM NOT SURE EINSTEIN THOUGHT GENERAL RELATIVITY WAS GOING TO BE AT ALL IMPORTANT.

I'M NOT SURE IF PEOPLE WERE STUDYING CERTAIN TOPICS AND NUMBER THEORY THAT THAT THIS COULD EVER BE USEFUL, WHEREAS, OKAY, A LOT OF THESE THINGS UNDERMINE --I MEAN, SORT OF UNDERPIN OUR SECURITY SYSTEMS, AND YOU KNOW, WHAT MATHEMATICS IS GOING TO BE USEFUL, IN LET'S SAY 100 YEARS, I COULDN'T TELL YOU.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LAST SPOKE, YOU SAID HOW CONCERNED YOU WERE ABOUT THE GAP BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE STUDENTS IN TERMS OF EDUCATION.

NOW, WE HAVE GONE THROUGH A WHOLE LOT, BOTH POLITICALLY, COVID AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

TEST SCORES IN MATH ARE AT HISTORIC LOWS.

WHAT DO YOU WORRY ABOUT AS AN EDUCATOR, BOTH IN TERMS OF EQUITY AND IN TERMS OF JUST MATH LITERACY.

>> YEAH, IT'S A TIME TO BE CONCERNED.

YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A KID.

ONE OF THE BEST RESOURCES I HAD WAS THAT I HAD A COMPUTER AND ACCESS TO THE INTERNET.

AND I WAS SO GRATEFUL TO GROW UP IN A TIME WHERE I AM ONE GOOGLE SEARCH AWAY FROM FINDING NOTES ON WHATEVER ADVANCED TOPIC I WANT TO LEARN ABOUT, WRITTEN BY SOME OF THE WORLD'S LEADING EXPERTS.

IN SOME WAYS, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS GROWING UP AS A KID, WE WERE IN A TIME WERE SORT OF ADVANCED INFORMATION WAS SO ACCESSIBLE COMPARED TO, I DON'T KNOW, WHEN MY DAD WAS A KID, HE HAS TO GO GET SOMETHING FROM THE LIBRARY OR HE FILLS OUT SOME CARD AND THEY HAVE TO SEND IT SOMEWHERE.

INFORMATION IS HARD TO GET, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE NOT SORT OF, YOU KNOW, IN THE RIGHT COMMUNITIES AND THE RIGHT PLACES.

I WOULD SAY THE DAY WE ARE LIVING IN NOW, INFORMATION IS EASILY ACCESSIBLE BY EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN EASIER TO TEACH YOURSELF SOMETHING.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN EASIER TO LEARN SOME ADVANCED TOPIC.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS VYING FOR OUR ATTENTION AND WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS THAT WANT TO DO THINKING FOR US, THAT WANT TO DO HARD WORK FOR US, IT HAS NEVER BEEN HARDER TO ACTUALLY SIT YOURSELF AND TRY TO LEARN AND TRY TO DO THINGS SORT OF THE HARD WAY, WHICH I THINK IS A BIG PROBLEM THAT WE ARE FACING WITH YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY.

IT'S HARD TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK WHEN YOU HAVE AN A.I.

SYSTEM THAT WILL JUST DO IT FOR YOU.

IT'S HARD TO CONVINCE STUDENTS TO READ THE BOOK, IT'S HARD TO CONVINCE STUDENTS TO DO THE EXERCISES THEMSELVES, AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALL GRAPPLING WITH, YOU KNOW, AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL, AND BEYOND.

>> AND THIS ERA OF A.I., THIS ERA OF WIDESPREAD KNOWLEDGE YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, EVERYTHING BEING AT YOUR FINGERTIPS, IS THAT GOING TO BE DEPLOYED, AND HOW SHOULD WE TRY TO DEPLOY IT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY KID, WHATEVER THEIR BACKGROUND, WHATEVER THEIR RACE, GETS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, RATHER THAN THIS TECHNOLOGY DOES AS SO MANY OTHER TECHNOLOGIES HAVE DONE, WIDEN THE DIVIDE?

>> YEAH, NO, THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION.

I TEND TO BE OF THE OPINION THAT THESE THINGS SHOULD MOSTLY GO UNTOUCHED DURING A PERSON'S EDUCATION.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LEARN A THING FOR YOURSELF.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEARN HOW TO LEARN THINGS IN THE SAME WAY THAT MY DAUGHTER IS LEARNING MATHEMATICS.

THEY DON'T JUST THROW A CALCULATOR AT HER AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND SAY HERE WE GO.

I THINK THE PROCESS OF THINKING THROUGH THINGS AND GAINING THIS INFORMATION IS REALLY IMPORTANT, THE PROCESS OF LEARNING.

AND SO, WHILE I AM ENCOURAGED, IT MEANS GREATER TECHNOLOGY MEANS GREATER ACCESS FOR ALL.

EVEN A FREE ChatGPT ACCOUNT.

I AM ALSO CONCERNED THAT IT IS GOING TO DISPROPORTIONATELY, NEGATIVELY AFFECT PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE EDUCATION IS NOT STRONGLY VALUED.

BECAUSE NOW, ALL OF THE SUDDEN, SHORTCUTS BECOME EASIER, AND THE SORT OF IMPORTANCE OF LEARNING AND DOING THINGS YOURSELF BECOME EVEN HARDER.

AND SO, THIS REALLY IS A DOUBLE- EDGED SWORD.

>> JOHN URSCHEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> DOUBLE-EDGED INDEED.

>>> AND FINALLY, TODAY MARKS 60 YEARS SINCE THE [ INAUDIBLE ] DISASTER.

IT WAS ONE OF THE DARKEST DAYS IN WELSH HISTORY.

ON OCTOBER 21st, 1966, THOUSANDS OF TONS OF DEBRIS CAME CRASHING DOWN ONTO THAT SMALL WELSH VILLAGE.

IT ENGULFED A SCHOOL AND NEARBY HOMES AND KILLED PEOPLE, 116 OF THEM WERE CHILDREN.

QUEEN ELIZABETH THE SECOND VISITED ABERFAN EIGHT DAYS AFTER THE DISASTER, STRUCK BY THE TRAGEDY, THE USUALLY STOIC QUEEN CRIED IN PUBLIC, ONE OF THE ONLY TIMES DURING HER LONG REIGN, AND SHE WOULD LATER DESCRIBE THE DELAY IN VISITING AS HER BIGGEST REGRET AS MONARCH.

TODAY, HER SON, KING CHARLES III, HIS WIFE QUEEN CAMILLA, AND THE FUTURE KING PRINCE WILLIAM JOIN THE COMMUNITY TO REMEMBER THE LIVES LOST, AND TO HONOR THE VILLAGE THAT CAME TOGETHER IN THE FACE OF UNMEASURABLE TRAGEDY.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN-UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

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THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

>>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENTS, JIM ATTWOOD & LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDICE KING WEIR, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, THE SYLVIA A.

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