>> NOW, OPENAI SAYS IT'S ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS SOLVED A MATHEMATICS PROBLEM THAT HAVE STUMPED HUMANS FOR DECADES, BUT AS A HIGH GETS BETTER AT FINDING THESE ANSWERS, OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES THAT THE REAL VALUE LIES IN THE HUMAN JOURNEY TO SOLVE THEM.

NFL PLAYER TURNED M.I.T.

ASSISTANT PROFESSOR JOHN URSCHEL JOINS WALTER ISAACSON, SOLVING A MATH PROBLEM OF HIS OWN.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND JOHN URSCHEL, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> FIRST OF ALL, CONGRATULATIONS, JOHN.

YOU HAVE JUST SOLVED A MATH PROBLEM THAT HAS BEEN DECADES, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WRESTLING WITH.

IT'S CALLED GAUSSIAN ELIMINATION.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE WHAT WE DO IN GRADE SCHOOL.

YOU LEARN HOW TO SIMPLIFY IT TO GET THE RIGHT ANSWER, BUT YOU DID IT WITH LIKE 10,000, 100,000, AND THEORETICALLY.

EXPLAIN WHAT YOU ACHIEVED AND HOW THAT COULD ACTUALLY BE USEFUL IN OUR LIVES.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, SO, IT'S NOT JUST LIKE THE ALGORITHMS WE LEARNED IN GRADE SCHOOL, IT IS THE ALGORITHMS WE LEARNED IN GRADE SCHOOL.

IT IS OFTEN CALLED THE ELIMINATION METHOD, WHERE YOU TAKE MULTIPLES OF ONE EQUATION AND SUBTRACT THEM TO ELIMINATE VARIABLES.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT OUR COMPUTERS DO WHEN WE NEED TO SOLVE A LINEAR SYSTEM, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT CERTAIN UNKNOWN VARIABLES EQUAL.

THIS IS WHAT EVERY MAJOR PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE USES, AND THIS ROUTINE IS USED PROBABLY BILLIONS, TRILLIONS, MAYBE EVEN QUADRILLION'S OF TIMES A DAY.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THIS IS A SUBROUTINE AND SO MANY APPLICATIONS IN ENGINEERING, BUSINESS, AND SCIENCE, AND THE BIG QUESTION WAS IS THIS ALGORITHM STABLE?

IS THIS AN ALGORITHM WE CAN TRUST?

AND THIS OLD CONJECTURE FROM THE '90s WAS EXACTLY AIMED AT UNDERSTANDING, HOW DOES THIS ALGORITHM WORK, DOES THIS ALGORITHM WORK?

>> AND WHEN YOU FIGURED OUT HOW IT WORKS AND THE WAY IT WORKS, WAS THAT SORT OF LIKE AN AHA MOMENT?

WE HAVE SEEN A BEAUTIFUL MIND ARE ALL THESE MOVIES WERE SOMEBODY IT IS IN A PUB OR MATT DAMON IS AT A WHITEBOARD, DOING THINGS.

WAS THAT SORT OF WHAT IT WAS LIKE?

>> YEAH, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERYONE ELSE, AND I CAN SAY FOR ME, THERE IS NO LIGHTBULB MOMENT WHILE YOU'RE HAVING A PINT AT THE BAR.

IT IS SLOW AND STEADY MATH PROBLEMS, AND REALLY, THE BIGGEST THING IS SLOW AND STEADY UNDERSTANDING.

>> NOW, YOUR BACKGROUND, OF COURSE, IS TOTALLY AMAZING.

AND LAST TIME WE SPOKE ON THIS PROGRAM, YOU HAD JUST LEFT THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE, WHERE YOU WERE AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN FOR THE BALTIMORE RAVENS.

YOU WERE ALSO EMBARKING ON A PHD IN MATHEMATICS AT THE TIME, YOU HAD JUST GOTTEN MARRIED, YOU WERE HAVING CHILDREN.

HOW DOES THIS ABILITY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM IN THE PATH YOUR CAREER HAS TAKEN, HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO LEAVE PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL?

>> I THINK I CONTINUE TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT.

I BET ON MYSELF IN A REALLY BIG WAY, AND BY ALL MEASURES, IT HAS PAID OFF.

I MEAN, THINGS ARE GREAT, I AM BACK AS A PROFESSOR AT M.I.T., I'M EXACTLY WHERE I WANT TO BE.

I HAVE GOT TWO SMALL KIDS, I'M JUST ENJOYING DOING MATH, HANGING OUT WITH MY WIFE, RAISING OUR KIDS, AND YET, IT'S A REALLY NICE, COMFORTABLE LIFE.

IT IS LOW STRESS.

YOU KNOW, THE MOST STRESSFUL THING I WORRY ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I GET A PAPER CUT WHILE I AM READING A MATH PAPER.

>> WAIT A MINUTE, THE HIGHEST STRESS THE THING, BEING AN OFFENSIVE LINEMAN, WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM FOOTBALL THAT MAY HAVE HELPED YOU WITH PUSHING ON IN MATH?

>> THE BIGGEST THING IS IT'S NOT THAT BIG A DEAL, YOU KNOW?

WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU KNOW, WORKING ON MATHEMATICS, TRYING TO SOLVE SOME PROBLEM, I THINK OFTEN TIMES, A LOT OF US LACKED PERSPECTIVE YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM, IF I FAIL, NOTHING BAD HAPPENS.

IF I'M STRUGGLING WITH SOMETHING, NOTHING BAD HAPPENS.

YOU KNOW, I'M SO LUCKY TO BE ABLE TO GO TO WORK EVERY DAY, AND WHAT DO I DO?

I JUST THINK ABOUT PROBLEMS ALL DAY, I JUST SOLVE MATH PROBLEMS, WHEREAS BEING IN THE NFL, YOU GET PAID A LOT OF MONEY, BUT THIS IS A SERIOUS, SERIOUS JOB.

IF YOU MESS UP, SOMEONE CAN REALLY GET HURT.

AND I CAN SAY THAT I AM REALLY ENJOYING RETIREMENT AND I'M JUST ENJOYING GOING TO WORK EVERY DAY, USING MY BRAIN IN FUN, INTERESTING WAYS, AND TRYING TO TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> NOW, YOU SAY YOU USED A.I.

TO SOME EXTENT AS A PARTNER TO DO ELEMENTS WHEN YOU WERE TRYING TO PROVE THIS THEORY.

TELL ME THE ROLE OF A.I.

VERSUS THE ROLE OF HUMAN INTUITION, IS THAT WHAT I SHOULD CALL IT?

>> YEAH, IT'S COMPLICATED BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS THAT ARE FALLING IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND IT'S NOT QUITE CLEAR WHAT THE EQUILIBRIUM IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

I MEAN, THESE MODERN I --A.I.

TOOLS ARE SO IN BLOOM, AND PROGRESS JUST KEEPS COMING EVERY THREE TO SIX MONTHS, IT'S A NEW BREAKTHROUGH, THEY ARE BETTER THAN THEY WERE.

AND SO, WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN A YEAR, I KNOW BETTER THAN TO MAKE SOME PREDICTION FOR JUST THE SIMPLE FACT THAT I AM CERTAINLY GOING TO BE WRONG.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF RECENT DEVELOPMENTS WHERE OPENAI HAS RELEASED SOLUTIONS TO A NUMBER OF PROBLEMS THAT THE MATHEMATICS COMMUNITY QUITE CARES ABOUT, AND WHEN THE INTERNAL MODELS THAT THEY USED BECOME PUBLICLY AVAILABLE, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING FOR THE MATHEMATICS COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT OPENAI DOING THAT.

THE FAMOUS ONE THEY DID A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WAS THE STOKES PROBLEM, WHICH I THINK INVOLVES FLUID MOTION, THAT SUDDENLY THEY SOLVED IT, BUT THEN THERE WERE MORE THAN 300 OPEN MATH PROBLEMS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WRESTLING WITH THAT OPENAI JUST SAID, BOOM, HERE IS THE SOLUTION.

WHAT DO YOU WORRY ABOUT IF ALL OF IT SUDDEN, A.I.

IS JUST SOLVING THESE THINGS?

ARE WE GOING TO LOSE SORT OF THE JOURNEY OF SOLVING THEM THAT IS UNIQUELY HUMAN?

>> YEAH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE AS A COMMUNITY AND AS A SOCIETY REALLY HAVE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH.

ONE, OKAY, THIS IS NOT THE QUESTION YOU ASKED, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY ON MY MIND, THIS QUESTION OF UNDERSTANDING.

WHEN YOU TRY TO PROVE SOME RESULT, MATHEMATICS --THE POINT OF BEING A MATHEMATICIAN WAS NEVER JUST TO PROVE SOME THINGS.

THE IDEA IS THE APPROVED THINGS TO KNOW THAT THERE CERTAINLY TRUE, BUT THE IMPORTANT PART IS THAT YOU SORT OF EXTRACT UNDERSTANDING FROM THEM.

SAID IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE SALTON SEA, THE JOURNEY IS THE IMPORTANT PART.

>> EXACTLY, AND WHEN THE DESTINATION JUST MAGICALLY APPEARS, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO TRY TO MAKE THAT JOURNEY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON, SO THEY CAN BRING THAT UNDERSTANDING TO BEAR ON OTHER THINGS.

AND THE SECOND THING IS SOMETIMES, IT'S THE FACT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE PROGRESS TOWARDS SOME DESTINATION, THAT YOU DISCOVER A LOT OF IMPORTANT AND INTERESTING THINGS ALONG THE WAY.

FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT OPENAI DROPPED RELATED TO FREE PROBABILITY, THIS WAS A PROBLEM THAT A PROFESSOR MORE OR LESS CREATED A WHOLE AREA OF MATHEMATICS TO TRY TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

AND THE AREA OF MATHEMATICS HE CREATED HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO BEAR ON SO MANY DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS, SO SORT OF FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM HE WAS MOTIVATED BY, THAT SOMEHOW, PROGRESS TOWARDS A PROBLEM CAN SOMETIMES BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM ITSELF.

>> WOW, THAT'S INTERESTING THAT THE JOURNEY AND THE PROGRESS IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN JUST GIVE ME THE ANSWER.

DO YOU WORRY YOUR STUDENTS ARE GOING TO GROW UP IN AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE THEY GET THE ANSWER, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THE JOURNEY?

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND I THINK MY FOCUS AS A PROFESSOR, AS A MENTOR, IS TO TRY TO TEACH YOUNG PEOPLE TO STILL THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

TO STILL GO THROUGH THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF HOW DO I SOLVE THIS PROBLEM MYSELF, BECAUSE THE DOWNSIDE IS THE MORE THAT PEOPLE JUST PURELY RELY ON THESE TOOLS, THE LESS THEY HONE THEIR OWN ABILITY TO THINK, AND THE LESS THEY HONE THEIR OWN ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE THING THE MACHINE GIVES THEM, AND THAT IS A REALLY SCARY, SCARY SITUATION.

IF YOU IMAGINE, LET'S SAY, A GENERATION OR TWO GENERATIONS FROM NOW, YOU JUST HAVE A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT THINKING FOR THEMSELVES.

>> WHAT IS THE ROLE OF HUMAN MATHEMATICIANS IN AN ERA WHERE A.I.

IS KIND OF SOLVING, SO TO SPEAK, MANY OF THESE PROBLEMS?

>> WELL, THE FIRST QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, A.I.

IS NATURALLY TAKING A LOT OF HUMAN MATHEMATICS, A LOT OF HUMAN IDEAS, A LOT OF HUMAN INSIGHT, AND SORT OF REALLY CRANKING THEM AND SORT OF PUSHING THEM TO SORT OF THE FOR THIS BOUNDARY ON FRONTIER.

I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A PREDICTION, BUT IT IS NOT YET OBVIOUS TO ME WHAT THE LIMITS OF A.I.

MATHEMATICS ARE WITHOUT ADDITIONAL HUMAN INPUT.

IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL, A.I.

IS TOO NEW OF A TECHNOLOGY.

IT IS CLEARLY SOLVING ALL THESE PROBLEMS FOR US.

ONE QUESTION I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IS DO WE STILL NEED HUMAN INPUT?

>> WELL, THAT'S A HUGE QUESTION.

>> IT'S A HUGE QUESTION.

>> ARE YOU TEACHING YOUR STUDENTS THAT THEIR MAIN ROLE IN THE FUTURE WILL BE LEARNING HOW TO COLLABORATE AND USE THE TOOLS OF A.I., RATHER THAN JUST ATTACK THE PROBLEM THEMSELVES?

>> WELL, MY MAIN ROLE TO TEACH MY STUDENTS IS HOW TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

HAD TO TRY TO SOLVE A PROBLEM FOR THEMSELVES.

A.I.

IS DEVELOPING VERY RAPIDLY, AND NO ONE KNOWS WHERE THIS IS GOING TO END UP, BUT WHEREVER THIS THING DOES END UP, I DO KNOW THAT THE IMPORTANT ROLE OF A MATHEMATICIAN IS GOING TO BE TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND MATHEMATICS AND TO BE ABLE TO THINK THROUGH PROBLEMS FOR THEMSELVES, SO THEY CAN DECIDE WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS TRUE, WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS NOT, WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT A PROBLEM, AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE ISN'T.

AND NO MATTER HOW ADVANCED A.I.

BECOMES, I THINK THESE ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL TOOLS AND SKILLS THAT A MATHEMATICIAN IS GOING TO NEED.

100 YEARS AGO RIGHT NOW AND 100 YEARS FROM NOW.

>> LET ME TAKE A SPECIFIC MATH PROBLEM THAT I HAVE WRESTLED WITH EVER SINCE I READ YOUR GREAT BOOK, MIND AND MATTER, THAT YOU WROTE WITH YOUR WIFE, LOUISA THOMAS, AND THERE IS A CHAPTER, TOO, ON THE THREE BODY PROBLEM, WHICH SEEMS VERY SIMPLE, WHICH IS THREE BODIES IN MOTION, LIKE THREE PLANETS IN EACH OTHER'S GRAVITATIONAL FIELD, BUT IT'S ALMOST --OR IS IMPOSSIBLE TO FIGURE OUT THE EXACT EQUATION AS I DO THAT.

YOU WERE WORKING ON THAT PROBLEM.

TELL ME HOW THAT FITS IN NOW TO WHAT A.I.

IS DOING.

>> YEAH, SO ABSOLUTELY.

THE THREE BODY PROBLEM IS ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS PROBLEMS IN MATHEMATICS AND PHYSICS, FAMOUSLY IF YOU HAVE TWO BODIES IN MOTION, IT IS INCREDIBLY STABLE.

WE CAN SORT OF UNDERSTAND THEIR LONG-TERM TRAJECTORIES.

BUT AS SOON AS YOU ADD IN A THIRD PLANET, THE SORT OF DYNAMICS THAT COME WHAT PEOPLE OFTEN CALLED CHAOTIC IN SOME SITUATIONS.

AND UNDERSTANDING THE BEHAVIOR WHEN YOU JUST ADD A THIRD LARGE BODY, I MEAN, YOU LOOK IN THE SKY, WE HAVE MANY, MANY LARGE THINGS, BUT THE DYNAMICS BECOME SO COMPLICATED, THE MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS BECOMES QUITE DIFFERENT.

AND YOU KNOW, WE HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS AS HUMANS.

CERTAINLY, I IMAGINE THAT THIS A.I.

SORT OF REVOLUTION HAS ALSO HELPED.

I ACTUALLY DID NOT LOOK AT THE A.I.

DROP UNDER DYNAMICAL SYSTEMS, I WAS TOO FOCUSED LOOKING AT THINGS LIKE MATRIX MULTIPLICATION AND OTHER THINGS, BUT I BELIEVE THEY MADE -- THEY SOLVED SOMETHING RELATED TO SOMETHING CALLED THE STRONG [ INAUDIBLE ] TRAJECTORY DYNAMICAL SYSTEM, BUT I HAVEN'T READ IT.

THERE ARE 300 SOMETHING PROBLEMS, I CAN ONLY DO ONE AT A TIME, AND SO -- >> LET ME JUST SAY, IT SOLVES 300 PROBLEMS LIKE THAT, SOME OF THE HARDEST WE STILL HAVE, DOES THAT OPEN THE WAY TO 1000 MORE PROBLEMS, OR ARE WE ABOUT TO SOLVE ALL THE MAJOR PROBLEMS THERE ARE?

>> NO, NO, NO, NO.

I REALLY THINK MATH IS TRULY GENERATIVE.

PERHAPS AN ANALOGY YOU COULD MAKE AS YOU MIGHT THINK THIS MIGHT BE A [ INAUDIBLE ] MOMENT.

AND COMPUTERS MORE OR LESS SOLVED CHEST FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES, MAYBE YOU COULD SAY THE LAST SORT OF FRONTIER WAS ALPHA ZERO BRINGING SOME REALLY NEW AND NOVEL IDEAS TO CHESS.

BUT I THINK UNLIKE CHESS, YOU KNOW, MATH, WE ARE JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXPAND, CONTINUE TO HAVE IMPORTANT APPLICATIONS, CONTINUE TO BUILD IMPORTANT INFRASTRUCTURE AND UNDERSTAND THINGS.

I THINK THIS IS JUST GOING TO SORT OF LIKE FOR THE THE SPEED AT WHICH WE ARE GOING TO MOVE.

WE WERE SORT OF CLIMBED THE MOUNTAIN WITH JUST ROBES AND THINGS, AND NOW ALL THE SUDDEN, WE HAVE A HELICOPTER.

BUT STILL, THERE ARE THINGS FOR US TO EXPLORE, THINGS FOR US TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND, THE THING I'M TRYING TO FOCUS ON IS ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT OPENAI HAS RELEASED.

>> WELL, LET ME ASK YOU A DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION.

OTHER THAN THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF SOLVING MATHEMATICAL PROBLEMS FOR, SAY, ENGINEERING OR MAKING FLUIDS DO BETTER OR AIRPLANE WINGS DO BETTER, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MATHEMATICS?

>> THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, YOU HAVE ALREADY STATED ONE OF THEM.

THE SECOND IS FOR UNDERSTANDING.

AND I THINK WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING ABOUT THE SORT OF QUANTITATIVE WORLD AROUND US, AND MATHEMATICS IS A QUANTITATIVE LANGUAGE WE USE.

AND SO, UNDERSTANDING MATHEMATICS AT A MORE HOLISTIC LEVEL, I THINK IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT IS CULTURALLY IMPORTANT TO US.

THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS IT'S HARD TO KNOW BEFOREHAND WHAT MATHEMATICS IS GOING TO BE USEFUL AND WHAT MATHEMATICS WILL NOT.

I AM NOT SURE EINSTEIN THOUGHT GENERAL RELATIVITY WAS GOING TO BE AT ALL IMPORTANT.

I'M NOT SURE IF PEOPLE WERE STUDYING CERTAIN TOPICS AND NUMBER THEORY THAT THAT THIS COULD EVER BE USEFUL, WHEREAS, OKAY, A LOT OF THESE THINGS UNDERMINE --I MEAN, SORT OF UNDERPIN OUR SECURITY SYSTEMS, AND YOU KNOW, WHAT MATHEMATICS IS GOING TO BE USEFUL, IN LET'S SAY 100 YEARS, I COULDN'T TELL YOU.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LAST SPOKE, YOU SAID HOW CONCERNED YOU WERE ABOUT THE GAP BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE STUDENTS IN TERMS OF EDUCATION.

NOW, WE HAVE GONE THROUGH A WHOLE LOT, BOTH POLITICALLY, COVID AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

TEST SCORES IN MATH ARE AT HISTORIC LOWS.

WHAT DO YOU WORRY ABOUT AS AN EDUCATOR, BOTH IN TERMS OF EQUITY AND IN TERMS OF JUST MATH LITERACY.

>> YEAH, IT'S A TIME TO BE CONCERNED.

YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A KID.

ONE OF THE BEST RESOURCES I HAD WAS THAT I HAD A COMPUTER AND ACCESS TO THE INTERNET.

AND I WAS SO GRATEFUL TO GROW UP IN A TIME WHERE I AM ONE GOOGLE SEARCH AWAY FROM FINDING NOTES ON WHATEVER ADVANCED TOPIC I WANT TO LEARN ABOUT, WRITTEN BY SOME OF THE WORLD'S LEADING EXPERTS.

IN SOME WAYS, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS GROWING UP AS A KID, WE WERE IN A TIME WERE SORT OF ADVANCED INFORMATION WAS SO ACCESSIBLE COMPARED TO, I DON'T KNOW, WHEN MY DAD WAS A KID, HE HAS TO GO GET SOMETHING FROM THE LIBRARY OR HE FILLS OUT SOME CARD AND THEY HAVE TO SEND IT SOMEWHERE.

INFORMATION IS HARD TO GET, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE NOT SORT OF, YOU KNOW, IN THE RIGHT COMMUNITIES AND THE RIGHT PLACES.

I WOULD SAY THE DAY WE ARE LIVING IN NOW, INFORMATION IS EASILY ACCESSIBLE BY EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN EASIER TO TEACH YOURSELF SOMETHING.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN EASIER TO LEARN SOME ADVANCED TOPIC.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS VYING FOR OUR ATTENTION AND WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS THAT WANT TO DO THINKING FOR US, THAT WANT TO DO HARD WORK FOR US, IT HAS NEVER BEEN HARDER TO ACTUALLY SIT YOURSELF AND TRY TO LEARN AND TRY TO DO THINGS SORT OF THE HARD WAY, WHICH I THINK IS A BIG PROBLEM THAT WE ARE FACING WITH YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY.

IT'S HARD TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK WHEN YOU HAVE AN A.I.

SYSTEM THAT WILL JUST DO IT FOR YOU.

IT'S HARD TO CONVINCE STUDENTS TO READ THE BOOK, IT'S HARD TO CONVINCE STUDENTS TO DO THE EXERCISES THEMSELVES, AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALL GRAPPLING WITH, YOU KNOW, AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL, AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL, AND BEYOND.

>> AND THIS ERA OF A.I., THIS ERA OF WIDESPREAD KNOWLEDGE YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, EVERYTHING BEING AT YOUR FINGERTIPS, IS THAT GOING TO BE DEPLOYED, AND HOW SHOULD WE TRY TO DEPLOY IT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY KID, WHATEVER THEIR BACKGROUND, WHATEVER THEIR RACE, GETS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, RATHER THAN THIS TECHNOLOGY DOES AS SO MANY OTHER TECHNOLOGIES HAVE DONE, WIDEN THE DIVIDE?

>> YEAH, NO, THIS IS A GREAT QUESTION.

I TEND TO BE OF THE OPINION THAT THESE THINGS SHOULD MOSTLY GO UNTOUCHED DURING A PERSON'S EDUCATION.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LEARN A THING FOR YOURSELF.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO LEARN HOW TO LEARN THINGS IN THE SAME WAY THAT MY DAUGHTER IS LEARNING MATHEMATICS.

THEY DON'T JUST THROW A CALCULATOR AT HER AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND SAY HERE WE GO.

I THINK THE PROCESS OF THINKING THROUGH THINGS AND GAINING THIS INFORMATION IS REALLY IMPORTANT, THE PROCESS OF LEARNING.

AND SO, WHILE I AM ENCOURAGED, IT MEANS GREATER TECHNOLOGY MEANS GREATER ACCESS FOR ALL.

EVEN A FREE ChatGPT ACCOUNT.

I AM ALSO CONCERNED THAT IT IS GOING TO DISPROPORTIONATELY, NEGATIVELY AFFECT PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE EDUCATION IS NOT STRONGLY VALUED.

BECAUSE NOW, ALL OF THE SUDDEN, SHORTCUTS BECOME EASIER, AND THE SORT OF IMPORTANCE OF LEARNING AND DOING THINGS YOURSELF BECOME EVEN HARDER.

AND SO, THIS REALLY IS A DOUBLE- EDGED SWORD.

>> JOHN URSCHEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> DOUBLE-EDGED INDEED.

>>> AND FINALLY, TODAY MARKS 60 YEARS SINCE THE [ INAUDIBLE ] DISASTER.

IT WAS ONE OF THE DARKEST DAYS IN WELSH HISTORY.

ON OCTOBER 21st, 1966, THOUSANDS OF TONS OF DEBRIS CAME CRASHING DOWN ONTO THAT SMALL WELSH VILLAGE.

IT ENGULFED A SCHOOL AND NEARBY HOMES AND KILLED PEOPLE, 116 OF THEM WERE CHILDREN.

QUEEN ELIZABETH THE SECOND VISITED ABERFAN EIGHT DAYS AFTER THE DISASTER, STRUCK BY THE TRAGEDY, THE USUALLY STOIC QUEEN CRIED IN PUBLIC, ONE OF THE ONLY TIMES DURING HER LONG REIGN, AND SHE WOULD LATER DESCRIBE THE DELAY IN VISITING AS HER BIGGEST REGRET AS MONARCH.

TODAY, HER SON, KING CHARLES III, HIS WIFE QUEEN CAMILLA, AND THE FUTURE KING PRINCE WILLIAM JOIN THE COMMUNITY TO REMEMBER THE LIVES LOST, AND TO HONOR THE VILLAGE THAT CAME TOGETHER IN THE FACE OF UNMEASURABLE TRAGEDY.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN-UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

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