>>Narrator: How do I know which path is best for me?

Is it possible to take on these challenges and obstacles?

Where do I even start?

What should I do with my life?

Sometimes, the only way to find out is to go see what's possible Since 2001, we've been sharing the stories of people who ventured out and explored different career paths and different possibilities for their futures.

This is one of those stories.

This is Roadtrip Nation.

[MUSIC] >> Speaker 1: Where do you see yourself in the next five years?

>> Cordero: I can't tell you where I'm gonna be at in five years, because five years ago I was in prison.

My life is over, that's what I thought.

But when I think of my freedom now, I think of the opportunities that lie before me.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: My name is Cordero Holmes.

I've got a job working 50 plus hours at a stucco plant.

This is the first real job that I've ever had, so I don't know what another job is like.

But stucco was not the dream job.

>> Cordae: Hey daddy.

>> Cordero: Cordae, what's up?

>> Cordae: I love you.

>> Cordero: I love you too.

It's nothing like coming home and somebody just embracing you.

In these last few years since I've been out I can say, my hero has been my son.

He was only born 14 ounces, he wasn't even a pound.

And I've seen him stand over all the adversity that he's ever faced.

I just get tons of joy just being around him.

I'm currently going to school at Rio Salado College.

I currently have a 4.0 GPA, which means that it's all A's.

I got two boys and two girls.

We all do homework together, we all learn together.

It is still kind of strange to me when I think about it, because just a couple of years ago, I was a totally different individual, and I never thought about school.

I just thought about getting out.

The anxiety about being released back into the streets is there.

Like am I good enough?

What's gonna be expected of me?

And what am I gonna do?

Am I gonna get back to hustling?

Am I gonna be robbing people?

Am I gonna be doing things that will ultimately led me right back into the penitentiary where I came from?

I definitely didn't think that I'd be sitting here about to take a road trip across the US.

I'm gonna be hitting the road with two other formerly incarcerated individuals, Hugo and London, interviewing folks who have been affected or are affecting formerly incarcerated population.

>> London: My name is London Croudy.

When I first came home, in my mind I so bad wanted reintegrating back into society to be like riding a bicycle.

But unfortunately it's not that easy.

It's a little traumatizing after being pulled away from it so long.

Now, you have to worry about, how am I gonna feed myself?

Where am I gonna live?

Where am I going to work?

>> Cordero: What are ya'll looking forward to doing on this trip?

>> Hugo: One thing that I look forward to is actually being able to explore the states.

That's like the first time I ever do this right here.

My name is Hugo Daniel Gonzalez.

I grew up in prison, when I was in Solidad, when I was in Centinela, when I was in Salinas, I used to spend my Saturday mornings watching Roadtrip Nation.

I imagined what it would be like to actually travel, never did I think that it would actually happen.

More importantly, I'm gonna get to meet people that actually advocate for formerly incarcerated individuals.

>> Cordero: I'll meet y'all in California, and then it's time for the road trip of your life.

>> Hugo: [LAUGH] That's right.

You're gonna love California, my boy.

>> Cordero: I'm ready.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: From the community in which I come up from, I don't know of anybody that has ever done anything like this.

I'm comfortable around cameras.

I've jokingly said before that every time I was on camera, it was used against me in a court of law.

[LAUGH] >> London: Three weeks on this RV, I am super excited.

Although I've been home for almost three years, there's a huge piece of me that's still trying to find myself.

So, I am really looking forward to meeting people directly impacted to hear their stories.

And also the female prison population tends to get overlooked.

I definitely want to bring awareness to that.

>> Hugo: It's an opportunity to really be true and real with one another, be human, be free.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I learned this from PBS, I learned how to cook, I used to watch Jacques Pepin.

Cooking like Jacques Pepin.

You saw that, look at that.

Got that from Jacques Pepin too.

If you're watching, thank you sir, I know I'm not doing you justice but it's going down.

>> London: Media has placed this stigma on us that people inside prison, they're uneducated, thugs, they just woke up doing terrible things, all these misconceptions.

And so maybe just bringing awareness to that, helping change the narrative >> Hugo: On this road trip, we're able to go around and get to know people for who they really are instead of the negative stigma that they put on us.

>> London: We are about to go to our first interview with Ken Oliver.

Ken spent over a quarter of a century in prison.

He's been home for two years now, and he's doing some amazing things since he's been home.

>> Ken: My name is Ken Oliver.

In 1996 I was sentenced to 52 years of life in prison for being a passenger in a stolen vehicle.

When we got pulled over by the police, I'm thinking that I might go to the county jail and be released the next day.

But they told me that my bail was $600,000 and they told me that was my third strike for some stuff I had done when I was young.

In the deepest parts of me, I didn't think that society could be that unjust that I was gonna die in prison as a result of being a passenger in a stolen car.

And so ultimately I served 24 years myself in prison, almost 9 years in solitary confinement.

>> London: Wow, thank you for sharing that.

What did you do to keep going?

What did you do to stay sane and push through?

>> Ken: Yeah, it's a great question.

For me, I was just very intentional about trying to maintain freedom in the only place that I could, and that was mentally.

The state captured my body, but they couldn't ever incarcerate the way that I think, and they could never incarcerate what I can learn.

And so the way that I kept my sanity is through really reading and educating myself.

>> Cordero: Yeah, that's great.

I share a similar experience as far as reading books and how that kind of just expanded my mind to so many different things that I was not aware of prior to going to prison.

I delved into books and everything began to change.

>> Ken: That's amazing.

For me, it was the same thing.

I really doubled down on my reading and focus really heavily on the law.

And in that moment, I realized that here I am reading about penal history in America.

And that the prison officials weren't really afraid of the book.

What they were afraid of is that I was gonna educate myself to a light and wake up and realize that maybe I shouldn't have been in prison.

And that's really what drove me.

I filed a civil rights lawsuit with the help of Stanford University and the Three Strikes Project against the State of California and the California Department of Corrections.

And as a result of that the state facilitated my release from prison >> London: Wow.

>> Hugo: Welcome home.

>> Ken: I appreciate it >> Hugo: I mean that, welcome home.

>> Ken: For me, I thought that I was basically gonna forget about what happened to me and the time that I spent in prison and try to get a job and go on about my life.

And really what happened to me, is that I was embraced, I was sought after, people wanted to hear my story, people wanted to hear my ideas.

As a result, I was able to speak with policymakers, legislators in Sacramento, and figuring out how to fix the criminal justice system from a directly impacted person's perspective.

And we started designing a program and worked a lot with the legislature in California this year, and they decided to give us $28 million to serve the reentry population, to do job training, to provide housing, and provide people economic opportunity.

And it's really historic.

I'm very proud that they chose us, and I'm very proud of the State of California for being progressive enough to make that investment.

>> London: Wow, congratulations.

>> Cordero: Definitely, congratulations man, you've done amazing work.

>> London: A billboard about you is like your resiliency.

This is one of the few shows that people can actually see inside prison.

What would you tell the person that's locked down, maybe losing hope, maybe have a question mark next to their name as far as their release date.

What would you tell them?

>> Ken: What I would tell every man and woman who sit inside of a prison cell is to fight like hell to get out of that box that society has placed you in.

And when I say box, I'm not talking about the prison or even the prison cell.

I'm talking about that psychological, spiritual, mental block.

Because I think that every man and woman in prison has the opportunity to break down barriers, to defy the odds to go against everything that everybody ever thought.

About us and where we come from and about where we're going.

And so, don't let your circumstance define you.

Define your circumstance.

>> London: I think people who are closest to the pain are closest to the solution.

He is doing amazing work and his resilience, it's really inspiring.

>> Cordero: He's doing amazing things out there in California.

We have to be in all of these different places in order to take out that stigma that exists with those who are formerly incarcerated.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: Just like him, I was a question mark.

Three years ago I was sitting in the cell.

I was a question mark, not knowing what the future holds for me.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: For me walking through Long Beach with my son, looking over and seeing this person, there's no denying the fact that 18 and a half years have passed.

And it's as if my life has been fast forwarded because of the actions that I committed as a kid.

I grew up in the east side of Long beach in the 80s and 90s.

And it was tough.

It's crazy to see this spot again.

The reality was is that violence was happening from all different directions.

Whether it was we're going to gang up on someone and rob them for their drugs and money.

Or we're going to take these guns and cause violence that can't be taken back.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: This is the first time I come back here since I've been out, that's crazy.

They were sitting me right there.

When they cuffed me up, they made me wait right there to just, man.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I had to grow up fast in a negative way where my childhood took the backseat.

I was a kid doing acts that a kid shouldn't do.

I was a kid doing acts that no human being should do.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: That was my prison ID, T35017.

That's what I was known for for the last 18 and a half years while I was in there.

Not my name but T35017.

I've never met my father, I've never spoken to him, as a matter of fact.

Like a person that doesn't even want to be my life, but I swear it's a joy to be in yours.

The photo album is saturated with you because that's all I really thought about.

>> Speaker 7: Yeah, I noticed that, there's a lot of pictures of me.

>> Hugo: So my son and I have been living with each other for about five months now.

So, I'm just getting to know my son.

There's a part of me that's ashamed about that because I know that I'm responsible for the absence.

>> Speaker 7: I would always think about my dad, I always think, I wish my dad was with me.

But as a kid growing up I would always say as long as my dad is alive that's all that matters.

I still have moments when I'm just looking at you and I'm like, man he's right here in front of me, that's my dad right here.

It's just something to take in every day >> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I look at my son and there is no way I could ever make up for 18 and a half years.

There is no way that I could just rewind and somehow, someway make everything better again.

So the option that I'm left with is starting today, being in the moment, being present.

But at the same time, I know that there's so many individuals in there that also should be going through the experiences that I'm going through.

There is this thing that I played in my mind when I was in prison, feeling like I was drowning in the ocean.

Like, I don't feel right just walking away knowing that there's so many individuals that are still in prison, that are still drowning in that ocean not knowing how to get out of it.

I feel that I have a duty to go back into that ocean and help individuals make it to shore, give back through my story and through my experiences.

Many people consider me the lucky one, the shining star that was able to articulate his story, that the governor commuted the sentence and now he went out.

But I can't forget the individuals that are still in there.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: We're about to go talk to Scott Budnick.

He produces movies, but that's not how I know him.

I know him because he's a strong advocate.

He created ARC, the Anti Recidivism Coalition.

And he came to visit me in the moment where I wasn't getting visits.

I didn't think I was ever gonna get out.

The governor was constantly talking about and reminding me of how I wasn't gonna get out.

>> Scott: I think Gray Davis said, the only way you're getting out is in a pine box.

>> Hugo: In a pine box, yes.

And I'm free and I'm grateful for that.

You played a very integral part in this.

>> Scott: I played a little part, you played the integral part.

I could throw names to the governor all the time, but I have to have all the evidence that backs up what I'm trying to achieve.

And you had gone years and years and years without getting into any trouble and helped people and mentored people and changed your life in a place that actually breaks a lot of people.

>> Hugo: Appreciate that, my boy.

But I really do wanna start off by tell us a little bit about yourself.

>> Scott: I just got to show you love real quick because I love that I'm just sitting here with you right now, bro.

Yeah so, when I went into juvenile hall for my first time, I met 14 year olds like this kid David.

And I asked him, how was your week he said, it was a real bad week.

I just got sentenced 300 years to life.

And I'm sitting in there and not only do I have white privilege, but I have movie producer privilege, and I knew if that was my kid, he would have the best lawyer in Los Angeles.

He will be bailed out before he spent the night in jail and he wouldn't be sitting there for two years facing this case.

He'd be sleeping in the comfort of his bed because money buys justice, right?

And then once you go visit a prison and it's all brown and Black people, then your eyes are open to what's going on here.

And so the next year, I'm sitting on Hangover 3, I remember sitting on a mountaintop in Vegas and like this was me like where everyone on Earth would want to be, right?

Bradley Cooper, Zach Galifianakis, the director, the cameras, the lights, the everything.

And I'm sitting there I'm like, why am I here?

I'm getting calls from people getting out of prison that are homeless that I'm like, I need to reevaluate.

I need to do something that really matters and I ended up leaving the business, taking a 90% pay cut, starting ARC, and it was hands down the best five years of my life.

>> London: Amazing.

Can you tell folks who don't know like what is ARC, what does it stand for and what are you all's mission?

>> Scott: So, this is the Anti Recidivism Coalition.

So our mission is obviously, no more people going back to prison.

So when someone comes home, there's a whole community to welcome them and to love them.

And anything from housing, to mentorship, to careers, to anything that someone needs when they come home from prison, leading with directly impacted people.

Which vast majority of our staff are and just like showing their heart and showing their change and showing the impact that they can make on the world.

The way it changes people in terms of how they see folks, who once might have been a gang member, or a criminal, or a drug dealer, or whatever it may be, to see who they are today.

I think that storytelling piece is key.

>> [MUSIC] >> Scott: Like thinking of you in that cage, now you're on a road trip.

Going across the country, pure freedom experiencing all these new things and it was your choices and your survival skills that led to this and you didn't let them break you.

The whole thing is just awesome, I'm excited for you guys.

>> [MUSIC] >> London: I love what Scott said about sharing our story and how that can help people change their perspectives.

But unfortunately, sometimes I feel like there's nothing really special about my story.

There's a lot of me's from where I came from.

My mother was 20 years old when she had me.

We struggled at times to get by, and we ultimately became best friends and we're still best friends.

Since like knee high, I've always wanted to be an actress.

So upon graduating high school, I didn't really know how I was gonna afford college, let alone a college in New York City, but I figured it out.

I was chasing my dreams, feeling in control my life.

And then my mother had her first seizure out of nowhere.

Seeing my mom like that, to leave her for me was like no longer an option, like I was not gonna leave my best friend.

I wanted to be able to provide for my mother.

And that's when I just started making poor decisions, which ultimately landed me in prison.

Mom, I'll ask you like, what was it like me going away?

>> Speaker 9: The whole thing was hard.

>> London: I'm sorry.

>> Speaker 9: They let me see you and, through the glass, they allowed at least to touch hands.

>> London: Yeah, >> Speaker 9: I remember that, I remember that.

>> London: And that was the last time that we actually physically got to touch each other for over eight years.

I'm really sorry you had to go through that.

>> [MUSIC] >> London: While I was in prison, I didn't know anything about the social justice world.

But going to prison, seeing so many hurt people.

Coming home, seeing so many hurt people, it's like how can you not get involved.

So I'm a program manager at the Ahimsa Collective.

We recently purchased a home where we are able to house four formerly incarcerated people, folks that are integrating back into society.

Each person has their own room.

And unfortunately I didn't really get that when I came home.

I went to a halfway house where it was almost over 100 of us sleeping on the same type of bunks that I was sleeping on in prison.

Here, the guys, their family comes, they cook here with them.

All of these things humanizes people, and the world needs more of that.

I needed more than of that.

>> Speaker 10: It's like a lifetime bonds of friendship, family that helped me to where I am today and where I'm going.

>> London: Yeah.

>> Speaker 10: Love you.

>> London: My makeup, my makeup.

>> [MUSIC] >> London: I love my job, but honestly, I just feel like I'm never doing enough cuz you see so many people hurting.

And so many people are coming home and need access to these type of resources.

So right now we're about to go meet Miss Vonya Quarles.

I know that she has an organization called Starting Over.

And she helps folks reintegrate, like reentry services.

She's formerly incarcerated and then she also became a lawyer.

Just showing people like, hey, I'm not the sum total of my mistake and I'm pushing forward and creating pathways for other people.

Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, Vonya?

>> Vonya: Sure, I am a third generation convicted felon.

My mother was convicted of a felony, my grandmother was convicted of a felony, and I was convicted of a felony.

I came from poverty, similar to most of the people that I was incarcerated with.

My mother was incarcerated for robbing a bank, and she was our caretaker.

So we went into foster care when she left.

And as a woman being incarcerated, three of my children were adopted out.

The judge hit the gavel and said, you will never see your children again.

But going to prison doesn't mean you can't be a parent or you shouldn't be a parent.

It's telling you that a family is in distress.

A family is in crisis.

And not too many women want to open up or share about that because there's a stigma to losing your children.

And so we've suffered in silence, and the silence now is being broken.

And that's what we're doing is we're changing that narrative because we're awake.

>> Cordero: What arose in you that you knew you had to make a change, and you made that change?

>> Vonya: So I paroled a long time ago.

I paroled in 1990.

And I thought that I could come home and forget about what had happened, who I was, go to work in the oil refinery.

They weren't checking applications back then.

I went through the interview.

Have you ever been convicted?

No, sir.

And that was it.

>> Cordero: How long were you at the oil rig?

>> Vonya: I was out there for 19 years.

>> London: Oh my.

>> Vonya: By then I knew in my spirit I didn't want to do this work anymore, so we started Starting Over in 2009.

I had acquired some properties while working in the refinery.

So that's what we turned into transitional housing.

And we began jumping in policy work, not knowing the first thing about it.

But what we began to find out is we weren't going to be able to provide enough beds to fix the issues, right, that we have to also focus on prevention.

So we've helped over 1600 people with housing.

We've helped change employment policies.

We've been able to give over a million dollars away during COVID to folks who are just coming home.

We have a family reunification, equity, and empowerment project.

Helping moms and dads reunite and support them through that whole process.

>> London: Whoa.

[LAUGH] Miss Vonya, my mind, I just wanna say, I am struggling to keep back just tears right now, because just hearing like everything that you've been through and your hard work is just so inspiring.

Oftentimes women get overlooked in this population and women inside and coming home have unique needs.

One of the worst things that I've experienced in prison is when you hear someone scream to the top of their lungs.

They find out through the telephone that their child is deceased and they can't even go to the funeral.

>> London: Can you share any other things that women go through that folks might not be aware of?

>> Vonya: I can't think of anything more significant than what you just shared, London.

I can recall anytime that we had to go out to court, we would have to strip naked in a room full of maybe 30 or 40 other women, you know, spread our legs and raise our arms up, open our mouth.

It was like I had no agency over my body at all.

Made me kind of tie it to experiences of my ancestors was that whole slave block field and it's really all connected.

A man or woman who goes to prison, they work for the state at $1 a day maybe if they're lucky.

After 30 years of doing that work they come home with $200 gate money, no social security, and their family has suffered most often in poverty in their absence.

A person who works should benefit from their labor, regardless of where they are.

And any state constitution that holds on to a loophole that will allow involuntary servitude while incarcerated is promoting a vestige of slavery that we've outgrown.

So, when I think about my mother, my mother wasn't born a criminal, my mother was born in poverty.

And criminalization is what her struggle to get out of poverty looked like to the rest of the world.

And so I believe in my heart, that it's not crime that we have a problem with.

We have a problem with poverty.

And when I think about those things, I know it's not about me or you or any one of us.

It's about the systems that are waiting for us.

We shouldn't be anomalies.

It shouldn't be, you're a formerly incarcerated attorney.

How interesting, how great.

Let it be inspiring but let it become the norm.

And that's really what the movement work is about.

How do we move the needle?

How do we change people's ideas about who formerly incarcerated people are?

So yeah, we got some work to do, and you all are equipped to do it.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: Goodbye, California.

Feels good to be home, Arizona.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: Vonya, she talked about lower socioeconomic environments and how mass incarceration is a part of that.

Being poor and not having enough money is a part of that.

Feeling like you don't have any option is a part of that.

And that's important and it's what's going on in my area.

I grew up in a low socioeconomic environment where everything that I had witnessed around me were the things that ultimately lead an individual into the penitentiary.

I knew probably in the sixth, seventh grade that I was ultimately gonna land in prison.

As messed up as that sounds, it was something that just came with the lifestyle that I wanted to participate in.

Kind of like a rite of passage, because everybody around me was thugging.

I didn't think about having a job.

If I didn't think about going to school.

I thought the only people that went to school that looked like me was individuals who were gonna eventually play basketball or some kind of sport or for white folks.

I mean, or like squares.

I mean, that's it.

I began walking around with pistols and I'm 13, 14 years old.

Figured you know what?

When I get older, this is what I'm gonna do.

And that led me into the penitentiary, where I did 10 years.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: It's been a long time since I've looked at these pictures myself.

Look at my mustache, what was I thinking?

Who I am today is no longer this individual who's in this picture.

I just wanna set a great example for my children.

Growing up, the examples I had had a lot to do with why I was incarcerated.

My role models were the individuals who probably do the worst stuff.

When I got locked up and I started reading about the Angela Davises, the Malcom Xs, the Russell Means, the Dennis Banks, and individuals like that, I've seen how much community meant to them.

And my role models changed.

Because ultimately I think that's what we're here for, that's our purpose, is to help one another.

To give back to my community.

So that the Black community, the Indigenous community, the Hispanic community.

I often hear, hey, what are you?

If somebody from Cali, they think I'm Polynesian.

I mean, I'm some kind of Samoan or Tongan, or some people think I'm Mexican.

But my father was an African American and my mother is an Indigenous woman from the Tohono O'odham Nation.

I've learned about all the traditional grounds of my people, of the Tohono O'odham people.

And I think about how they used to traverse these lands, and think about my ancestors looking at the sunset, just like I'm doing right now.

I wonder what kinda life they lived and if they think about all the stuff that I think about.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: Well, we're about to talk to Rafael and he's the vice president of programs in the Partnerships with Native Americans.

[FOREIGN] Rafael, [FOREIGN] Cordero Holmes.

When I was asked, who would I like to interview, I immediately thought of you.

You've become a mentor to me.

>> Rafael: Thank you, I'm humbled that you've recommended me for this opportunity to share my story and to hear from you.

I want to acknowledge that we stand on the land of the Oodham and their ancestors.

This is their land, we call this place now Phoenix, Arizona.

And so these lands now have reservations.

But what people don't know is the history of those reservations, that they were first prisoners of war camps to control the Natives and make sure that they were not leaving the reservation.

So long before I was in prison, I had barriers around my village.

I was born into a family that had a history of the men not living past 35 years old.

My great grandfather was beaten to death here in Phoenix.

My father was shot and murdered at 32.

So I grew up in a life that I thought that was our path, to die.

And then for a male, you're not supposed to cry, you're not supposed to show your feelings cuz then you're weak.

That just festers, that whole no talk, no trust, no feel, really had an impact on me, and I got away from who I was.

And so when I was 19 years old, I was facing a charge of 25 to life.

>> Cordero: If you could talk a little bit about how at some point in your life you broke away from that lifestyle that you were living that got you incarcerated, when did that happen?

And what caused that?

>> Rafael: So here I am thinking I'm good, I'm comfortable in here.

They call it being institutionalized.

So that hit me, brother, that there's something not right about feeling comfortable being in the prison.

I decided that if I had a chance, I was gonna change that.

And I'm sitting in a group, this guy I was out there with, worst person that, I mean, I was not an angel but that guy sitting in there and he starts crying, man, he's talking, he's crying.

I'm like, what the hell is this guy doing?

Some started staring at me, and then I'm like, what the hell was going on with me?

It gave me permission that it's okay to feel.

I'll tell you, I've never been more scared of something than to feel, to allow myself to open that up.

And when I started getting in touch with that part of myself, it was just a real game changer, really.

>> Hugo: I feel that your catalyst was recognizing how vulnerability is not a weakness but a strength.

And recognizing who you are as your true self, and I love that.

>> Rafael: Reconnecting with who you are.

I think those are the things that make a difference for me.

My cup of tea is serving, cuz I think there's many stories like ours out there, and they're looking for a pathway, one you found, one you found, you found.

And so what can we do to move life forward for others?

And sometimes because we are behind bars, we think we're the worst of the worst.

We still have a good in there, and we've gotta connect with that.

And that was my struggle.

>> Cordero: I wanna thank you, Rafael.

Your people are my people, and we're all the same people.

And understanding that, we're better together.

>> London: I love that.

Thank you.

>> Rafael: Thank you for the opportunity to connect with you and I'm really happy I was voluntold to be your mentor.

And so, when I think about what makes a difference, it's those moments when you're connecting with one another just like we're doing here.

This is part of my healing, here, right here and now.

So, thank you very much.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: Talking to Rafael, it's definitely reenergized the thought of community.

A wise man once told me, we wash our hands when we wash others' feet.

I wanna be of service to people, because a service to the community is a service to yourself.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: How are you feeling, my boy?

>> Cordero: I'm feeling, today is October 11th, it's Indigenous People's Day, on Indigenous lands.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: Look down so we could really get the full effect.

>> Cordero: I don't really do the selfies, bro.

>> Hugo: No, no no, but like- >> Cordero: I got you, I got you, you ain't gonna fall there.

>> Hugo: It's all about angles, my boy.

Everybody pucker their lips.

>> Cordero: [LAUGH] >> Hugo: Everybody, pissed off look.

Act like you were in the penitentiary.

>> Cordero: We were in the penitentiary.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I feel the sun, but I feel much more than just the warmth of the sun.

I feel the warmth of freedom.

This trip, it's helping me shed those old triggers of being in prison.

And although I'm dealing with my traumas on a daily basis, this is giving me doses of reality in a way that just feels so good to my soul.

>> [MUSIC] >> London: Coming home from prison, you had to hit the pavement and go.

Didn't have time to think about I just came out of this traumatic experience.

Leaving at a young age, coming out as a grown woman, I'm just really trying to find myself.

And I'm using the time during this road trip to start that process.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: Doing these interviews, hearing these people's stories.

They all have come from similar circumstances that I have come from.

Some have been in prison longer, some have been in prison less, but all didn't lose hope.

>> [MUSIC] >> London: Hope is the thing I feel like that you have to grasp on to, and protect, and hold on to dear life in order to make it through those days on the inside >> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: That's crazy, man.

This is my first time seeing snow >> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: It feels like cotton.

It's cold, but it feels like, it's fluffy.

[LAUGH] >> [MUSIC] >> London: We get the opportunity to interview Chris Young today.

He was sentenced to a natural life sentence.

>> Hugo: I'm interested to know what he's doing now, where's his life at?

>> [MUSIC] >> Chris: I come from a small city, Clarksville, Tennessee.

Growing up my brother, he unfortunately had to be more than the big brother.

He also had to be like my mother and my father, which led to him having a lot of responsibility at a young age and a lot of stress.

And he committed suicide in 2007 when I was 18 and he was just 21.

I was so down, I was so hurt.

It led to a young man having not only anger and depression, it led to a young man being determined, just determined in the wrong way.

I got arrested, a part of federal drug conspiracy.

And eventually I was sentenced to two life sentences plus five years running consecutive.

And while I was in there, I realized that I didn't have nowhere to go but up.

I'm gonna prove to you that I am valuable to society, to this world.

>> Speaker 14: It's happening.

Yes, look, look, look, look.

>> Chris: After ten years and two months, I received presidential clemency, and I was released.

All praise and acknowledgement to those that helped me.

They literally saved my life in so many ways, and here I am.

>> Cordero: You talk about mental health, right?

The depression, the stress, how have you been able to deal with being out nine months and are you still experiencing those same emotions at times?

>> Chris: Thank you for that question.

One of my first actions upon being released, I got a company incorporated and I'm trying to make a mental health app.

I want it to be called Like You, because I want individuals to know you're not the only one going through what you're going through.

But also, it's a double entendre, cuz I want it to mean like you, like yourself, love yourself.

The motivation for what I am doing, it comes from my brother.

I realize his suicide was an attempt to solve and heal a very intense emotional pain.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see it coming, and I couldn't prevent it.

But what I can do now is try to help other individuals.

And I'm blessed to be here, free.

Like I said, all praise and acknowledgement to those that helped me.

I have a beautiful support system.

People like Judge Sharp, he had to sentence me to two life sentences.

The mandatory minimum call for something he didn't agree with, so he resigned in protest.

Federal judges, as long as they're alive, they can have their job unless they break the law.

He's able to convey to the world, hey, I believe in being just, I believe in having empathy, compassion, and showing love to individuals.

And he conveyed that in a way that helped me.

And to be free, I don't take it for granted.

>> London: Man, this Sharp guy, I would love to meet him.

>> Cordero: Shout out to Sharp.

>> London: We love him too.

>> Cordero: [LAUGH] >> Hugo: Yeah, I feel man, put him on FaceTime right now, for real.

>> Chris: Judge Sharp.

>> Speaker 15: I love that show.

You're telling your story on there?

>> Chris: Yes, we had to bring up how you had the courage to speak out on my behalf because you believe in justice and fairness.

And so I was- >> Speaker 15: I appreciate you saying that, thank you.

>> Chris: And thank you for being that living embodiment.

They want me to introduce you to the cast and crew.

This is Hugo.

>> Hugo: How's it going, Judge Sharp?

I just wanted to say thank you for being a voice for those that may feel, at the moment, voiceless.

I really, honestly, thank you.

>> [MUSIC] >> London: I think that sometimes it's so easy to judge somebody.

You do the crime, you do to time.

Or you're a horrible person, you are the sum total of your mistake.

>> Chris: Have you a good evening, man.

I love you.

>> Speaker 15: All right, thanks, I love you.

I'll talk to you soon.

>> Chris: All right.

>> London: For his judge to say, you know what?

No, this is wrong.

It's not easy standing up for the right thing, but what good would it have been to have him still behind those bars?

And that's the case for so many other people.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: We're on our way to Louisiana through Baton Rouge, and then we're gonna go to New Orleans.

>> [MUSIC] >> Shermond: So my name is Shermond Esteen, and I went to prison in 1999.

I came out in 2019, for five ounces of marijuana.

I always had a vision when I came out to open up my own restaurant.

My French toast is signature, it's my very own recipe.

>> Cordero: What's in that?

>> Shermond: I can't tell you all [CROSSTALK].

>> [MUSIC] >> Shermond: One of my cooks was incarcerated for 24 years.

This is the chance for people that when they come out, they could get a job, they can learn a skill, and perhaps get their own business.

>> Hugo: That's a beautiful thing.

>> Shermond: Well, thank you man, I appreciate that.

And I felt I was wronged with all that time, because I had a 33-year sentence.

But it's either two things you could do in prison, you can either get bitter or better, that's what I live by.

>> Cordero: I'm not gonna leave this trip the same person that came on this trip, because now my family is extended.

Hugo is part of my family, London is part of my family.

>> Hugo: Ooh, all right, all right.

>> London: If folks never been to prison, they may not understand that the people inside, they become your family.

So I'm so excited, this next interview is really dear for me, we are about to go interview Jamie Elwood.

I spent a little bit over four years with Jamie while in federal prison.

We have not seen each other for over five years now, and I'm just so excited to reunite with my sister.

Wow, I'm feeling really emotional right now [LAUGH].

>> Jamie: Me too, [LAUGH] >> Hugo: You're being real right now.

>> Cordero: Let me get some tissue too, I'll be crying, I'm the crybaby of the group.

>> Jamie: [LAUGH] >> London: We grew together, you know?

You weren't just in there with me, you became my sister and my family member, and to be sitting here in your living room.

We've been thinking about this moment for a while, [LAUGH] so I'll pass it to you, and if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself, that'll be amazing.

>> Jamie: Okay so, I'm Jamie Elwood, I met London during my incarceration.

My incarceration is nothing that I hide, but especially the area I'm in, I feel like a lot of people are more closed minded.

You tell them, yeah, I did some time or when I was locked up, a lot of people are like, what, you?

So, dealing with that when I came home, it was hard for me to find a job, and it was a time where food stamps was the way me and my daughter were eating.

Luckily there was a company who hired me, it was a floor cleaning business.

So in prison, I learned how to clean floors, how to strip and wax, and do all this stuff, but it was not paying enough.

It was just enough to cut off my food stamps, but not enough to pay my bills, so I had to start cleaning houses on the weekend.

It actually started paying off well and by me doing a good job, I was getting referrals.

So that's what led me to be an entrepreneur.

Just through a lot of hard work, I am where I am now, I have a cleaning service, and I have Airbnb's that I rent out.

I get my motivation from my daughter, and how can I make our life better for her, and how can I set her hope for the future?

>> Hugo: I like the fact that you bring up having these difficult times on finding a job, so you created your own way, you made your own path.

>> Jamie: That's it, I just have to keep rolling.

In order for me to get through this time, I have to do something that's gonna keep these positive things going in my mind and know that I can, I will, and I must keep pushing, I have to.

>> Hugo: The way you express yourself just honestly makes me realize a lot about myself, especially remaining positive even in moments where you may not feel it.

If you had the opportunity to talk to the individuals that are still in there right now watching this, what would you say?

>> Jamie: Man, first of all, I look at, you, three life sentences and you got out, so there's always hope.

While you're in prison, learn everything you can.

Whether it's doing the floors, whether it's taking a class to learn about stocks.

Whatever it is, learn as much as you can, and when you come home, come home with a purpose.

>> London: Amazing, thank you friend.

Jamie is a testimony of when you have to figure it out.

People on the inside, they see Jamie, they can maybe gain some ideas on what they can start doing.

But Jamie expressed that it wasn't a pretty job.

So I think some prisons need better programs in there, so if Jamie wanted to do a cleaning business when she came home, that was her prerogative.

If she wanted to, I don't know, go into the tech sector and learn how to do apps and everything like that, that should also be her prerogative.

>> [MUSIC] >> Marcus: I got locked up at 15 years old, I got locked up in 96, so the Internet had just came out.

When I got into prison, all of these computers were donated, I think, by a local college or university.

And this new computer class was opening up, I'm like, I wanna do it.

It was this one piece of software that I was fascinated by, softwares where you can make and build stuff.

Because if I could learn how to build stuff, then I could go home and I will have a job.

I ain't gotta steal cars, I won't got to steal crack anymore, right?

When I came home, I started to have these amazing new experiences, got married, having children.

And my best friends who I grew up with in those cells with would be like, bro, send us pictures.

But I never did, [LAUGH].

So I was like, we gotta be able to figure out a way to solve this problem.

And so, I started just googling how to build a mobile app.

I had no idea how to launch a tech company.

And so along the journey, it was seeds of things that I learned in prison, coming home and taking that and allow them to snowball, and overtime it became what's now Flikshop.

We build the technology that helps keep families connected to their incarcerated loved ones.

Our users are able to take a picture, add some quick text, press send, and for $0.99 we print that picture and text on a real tangible postcard.

And we ship it to any person in any cell anywhere in the country.

So far we've connected 170,000 families around the country.

>> Hugo: Being able to get mail, being able to get pictures, is everything to individuals doing time in there, and actually know that for that moment they were thought of.

So I'm sure there's a lot of individuals that are thankful for what you've created.

>> Marcus: Bro, you're giving me goosebumps right now, because my mom literally saved my life by writing me letters when I was in prison.

So I'm super grateful for you saying that.

>> Cordero: I need to stop crying, I be crying all the time.

>> London: You should let it out.

>> Marcus: Let that out, bro, let that out, bro.

[CROSSTALK] Yeah.

>> London: Man, some beautiful things can happen when you just believe in people and give them tools and resources.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: So I snuck away from the group and I jumped on a fan boat.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: It was like a rollercoaster ride.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: It made me feel like I experienced Louisiana.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I couldn't erase the smile that I felt.

For the most part it was like a smile of being free, like man, I am worthy of being present, being free in this world.

The days of saying that we don't deserve it are over with, we deserve to live.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: Cordae, you miss me?

>> Cordae: Yeah.

>> Cordero: I miss you, too.

>> Cordae: I love you.

>> Cordero: I love you, Cordae, I'm gonna see you in a little bit, all right, in a couple days.

Have you been playing your piano?

>> Cordae: Yeah.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: We have a day left on this trip.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: We're in Selma, walking up the bridge that Martin Luther King walked.

>> Cordero: Makes me think that there's a reason why I'm walking those same steps.

So, I mean, what step will I walk in the future?

Who knows, I might be walking on the moon, I feel like [LAUGH].

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: We're here in Montgomery, Alabama, which is a historical city.

>> Hugo: This is the spot where they actually created the confederacy, so many negative, but now positive things are happening.

And for the first time ever, a Black mayor has been elected.

>> Cordero: I can't wait to talk to the Mayor of Montgomery, Steven Reed, as well as city council member LaTonya Tate, District Nine.

A lot of folks tell me that one day I might be the mayor of Phoenix, talking with them may just encourage me to run for office in Phoenix.

So, let's go.

>> [MUSIC] >> Steven: Last thing I want is for someone to be housed in a prison.

We have a nation that over-sentences and over-criminalizes a lot of nonviolent offenses.

Over-sentencing people costs us more as a society than it does to educate and inform those people on the front end.

And that's why I ran for mayor, was to try to change some of those outcomes in the criminal justice system, to be fair and equal.

And right now we know it's not.

>> Cordero: I'm encouraged just to sit here with you being the first African American mayor in the city of Montgomery, because I grew up in a low socio-economic environment, where only the things that I was exposed to as a young child was what I believed that would be my life's work.

Now I'm sitting here with you, and I'm encouraged.

>> Steven: When you haven't seen it, you don't know that you can be it.

>> LaTonya: My journey for City Council started because my son is formerly incarcerated.

Prior to that, I didn't wanna have anything to do with criminal justice or anything.

But when it hit my door, that whole perspective changed.

I can't say that I know what it feels like to be incarcerated or locked up cuz I don't.

But I can't say that I'm a mom and I know the impact that it has had on my family.

It was like, what are we going to do to turn this pain into purpose?

And that's like fight.

And that's like doing what I did, run for elected office.

>> London: So what would you tell folks what that looks like when we come together and use our voice and use our vote?

>> Steven: I would say it very succinctly, the government closest to you is the government that impacts you the most.

The local elections that bring about those changes to the criminal justice system in your community, you can bring about more fair sentencing in your courts.

You can bring about the type of change that you want to see happen into policy because that's what's needed, right?

What we don't have is a silver bullet solution.

It's a process, but if you aren't engaged in the process, then the process won't engage you.

It won't just come if we're mad about it, it won't just come if we're hopeful about it, we gotta be intentional and deliberate.

>> LaTonya: Because we can sit here and re-imagine how we want community to be, how we want the world to be, but in order for that to happen, we've got to be that change.

Because we want to keep our people out of these systems.

And in order for us to move the needle and to fight the system, we gotta turn this pain into purpose.

And I want to see more of us run for office cuz I feel it, I feel it, next mayor.

>> [MUSIC] >> Cordero: We talked about individuals saying like, Cordero, you could do this, Cordero you can be the mayor.

I remember hearing that a couple of years ago and thinking like, being funny, but representation is important.

And when I see folks that look like me in those types of seats, it means that it could happen.

This is not just a trip for me.

I've been learning so much since the first day that we came together and I got to learn about y'all and y'all experiences.

And I've been invigorated, reinvigorated, and we can really create change out here.

I'm sad to see y'all leave but I'm excited to see what y'all do.

>> London: Same for you.

Vote for Cordero.

>> Cordero: [LAUGH] >> London: I'm so thankful that I met the two of you as well.

We've all been through the system, I really felt heard by the two of you and supported, that really meant a lot for me.

>> Hugo: I like that.

I really legitimately had life experiences that I'll never ever forget.

>> Scott: I gotta show you love real quick cuz I love that I'm sitting here with you right now.

>> Hugo: And man, it's a pleasure.

Look, man, the people that I met in prison became my family.

And I could honestly say that my family grew throughout this trip.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: If you had the opportunity to say something.

>> Cordero: To somebody who's in prison, who maybe going crazy, who maybe watching this.

>> London: What would you say to them?

>> Steven: People think of setbacks as final, and they don't have to be.

>> Vonya: Oftentimes, folks in prison are telling you that your life is over, that you're never gonna be anything, that you've thrown it all away.

Don't believe any of that.

The only place to go is forward.

>> [MUSIC] >> Ken: Thoughts of retribution and punishment, it doesn't heal, it doesn't restore.

What does work is that when you love people, when you lift them up, when you embrace them, when you provide people resources, people respond to that in a positive way.

>> Chris: Allow yourself to keep thinking and believing that you will be free.

Your mentality equals your reality.

Keep feeding yourself those thoughts and it will be true.

>> London: While I was in prison, I wrote a book.

After meeting all these women, these beautiful people, I was like, man, I wonder if I could tell their stories to help humanize these folks, change the narrative.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I wanna believe that I was brought into this world to help the individuals that are in the same place that I grew up in.

My brothers that taught me so much.

>> [MUSIC] >> Hugo: I love the fact that I'm a part of the solution even though I was once labeled the problem.

>> Cordero: I feel like there's a bigger calling in my life.

I'm gonna go back to Arizona and I'm gonna take all the things that I've learned to my community.

I've been writing essays and scholarships.

5 years from now I'd have a master's and I'd be working on my doctorate.

Education is the key, and I feel like I can do anything I wanna do.

And that's freedom to me.

>> [MUSIC] Wondering what to do with your life?

Well we've been there and we're here to help Our website has some awesome tools to help you find your path And you can check out all our documentaries, interviews and more Start exploring at roadtripnation.com >> [MUSIC]