♪ ♪ SUPPORT FOR ""CONVERSATIONS LIVE"" COMES FROM THE GERTRUDE ...

THANK YOU.

FROM THIS IS "CONVERSATIONS LIVE."

HELLO, AND WELCOME TO CONVERSATIONS LIVE.

I'M CAROLYN DONALDSON.

WE'RE COMING TO YOU LIVE FROM THE DR. KEIKO MIWA ROSS WPSU PRODUCTION STUDIO.

FINANCIAL SCAMS AND FRAUD APPEAR TO BE ON THE RISE AND THEY'RE SOME SAY EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS AND GETTING TRICKIER TO SPOT.

WITH FINANCIAL LOSSES TOPPING OVER $10 BILLION DOLLARS IN REEBTD YEARS AND THAT'S WHAT IS REPORTED, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT, SCAMS ARE HAVING DEVASTING EFFECTS ON THE PUBLIC AS TECHNOLOGY GETS MORE SOPHISTICATED.

TONIGHT WE HAVE GUESTS WHO WILL TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE LATEST SCAMS PEOPLE HAVE ENCOUNTERED, HOW TO SPOT THEM, HOW TO KEEP YOUR PRIVATE INFORMATION SAFE, AND MORE.

LET'S MEET OUR GUESTS.

GREG HAYES IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF KISH BANK.

A GRADUATE OF LAFAYETTE COLLEGE, HE CURRENTLY SERVES AS CHAIR OF THE BANKERS ADVISORY BOARD OF THE CONFERENCE OF STATE BANK SUPERVISORS AND AS A MEMBER OF THE PENNSYLVANIA BANKERS ASSOCIATION'S MEMBER ENGAGEMENT AND DEVELOPMENT POLICY COMMITTEE.

PAUL BENDA IS THE EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR RISK, FRAUD AND CYBERSECURITY AT THE AMERICAN BANKERS ASSOCIATION.

PAUL JOINED THE ABA IN 2018, WHERE HE LEADS THE ASSOCIATION'S INITIATIVES IN FRAUD, CYBERSECURITY, PHYSICAL SECURITY, AND INFORMATION SECURITY PRACTICES AND CHAIRS THE ABA FRAUD COORDINATION GROUP.

JOINING US LATER IN THE SHOW WILL BE MILTON BARTLEY, CO-FOUNDER, PRESIDENT & CEO OF IMAGEQUEST.

ONE OF NASHVILLE'S MOST PROMINENT BUSINESS LEADERS, MILTON BARTLEY WAS A COMBAT LEADER IN THE UNITED STATES ARMY BEFORE HE LAUNCHED IMAGEQUEST, A WORLD-CLASS IT SERVICES COMPANY.

ALSO, WE SAT DOWN EARLIER WITH A LOCAL PUBLISHER PENNY EIFRIG WHO WAS A VICTIM OF A SCAM, SO WE'LL HEAR MORE ABOUT HEAR EXPERIENCE.

AND WHETHER YOU'RE WATCHING US ON TV, STREAMING US ONLINE OR LISTENING ON THE RADIO, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

CALL US WITH YOUR QUESTIONS AT 1-800-543-8242 OR EMAIL CONNECT AT WPSU.ORG.

LET'S GET STARTED.

FULL DISCLOSURE, I WORK IN COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AT KISH BANK SO I HAVE SEEN FIRSTHAND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SCAMMED IN FINANCIAL ENDEAVORS.

I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS MYSELF TONIGHT.

LET'S START WITH YOU, GREG.

HOW PREVALENT WOULD YOU SAY RIGHT HERE IN CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA ARE SCAMS AT THIS POINT.

HOW OFTEN ARE REPORTS OF SCAMS ON A WEEKLY BASIS?

>> EXTREMELY PREVALENT.

FINANCIAL CRIMES HAVE EXPLODED IN RECENT YEARS ESPECIALLY SINCE COVID.

AS A LOCAL COMMUNITY BANK WE SERVE FIVE LOCAL COUNTIES, SURROUNDING THIS PART OF CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA WITH OVER 50,000 CLIENTS AND BEE GET HUNDREDS OF CALLS A DAY QUESTIONS FROM FOLKS ASKING IF THIS IS SAFE OR THAT IS SAFE OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS CARD ACTION TRANSACTION AND THEY WANT TO FILE A DISPUTE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE.

EMAILS OR TEXT MESSAGES THEY GET, AND BEE PLESH THAT.

WE NEED PEOPLE TO CALL US AND ASK QUESTIONS.

YOU KNOW, ICE NOT TRUST BY VERIFY ANYMORE.

IT'S VERIFY, VERIFY, VERIFY.

IT IS A VERY PREVALENT ISSUE AROUND HERE.

IT HAS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON OUR ECONOMY AND OUR COMMUNITIES AND THE PEOPLE OF OUR COMMUNITIES SO THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE TONIGHT.

WE WANT TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT.

>> THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> LITS WIDE ENTHE PICTURE OUT AND BRING PAUL IN SERVING AS THE NATIONAL ROLE, PAUL, TELL US WHAT YOU ARE SEEING AND THE NUMBERS WE CITE MIGHT BE THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG?

>> I THINK THAT'S CORRECT.

SCAMSZ ARE A BIG PROBLEM OUT THERE.

THE FDC SAY DUE TO UNDERREPORTING, THEY ESTIMATE THE LOTS TO AMERICANS AT $ 158 BILLION.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A HUGE PROBLEM OUT THERE AND THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE IS THAT THERE IS NO SINGLE GOVERNMENT ENTITY IN CHARGE OF SCAM AND FRAUD PREVENTION.

THE TREASURER DEPARTMENT, COMMERCE DEPARTMENT, THE FOURTH QUARTER.

THERE IS NO SINGER POINT TO GATHER THE DATA.

YOU CAN REPORT IT TO THE FBI OR THE FCC BUT IT'S HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE AND HARD TO COORDINATE ACROSS THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE NO SINGER PERSON IS IN CHARGE.

>> NOW YOU CITED THE FBI AND I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE WEEDS WITH NUMBERS BUT THROUGH THEIR DIVISION WHICH IS CALLED IC-3, THEY REPORT SO MANY COMPLAINTS PER YEAR AND I THINK WE HAVE A STATISTIC THAT PAWLD TOLD US ABTHAT'S PROBABLY UNDER REPORTED, PAUL BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE EMBARRASSED TO CALL IN AND EVEN SAY WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?

>> IT COULD BE BECAUSE THEY COULD REPORT IT TO THE FTC AND THOSE NUMBERS DON'T NECESSARILY MATCH UP.

THEY WOULD BE EMGASSERRED AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT COULD BE JUST THEY THINK THERE NO, SIR POINT SOME REPORTING IT BECAUSE NOBODY IS GOING TO HELP THEM.

>> OH BOY.

NOW WE ARE GOING TO COMBAT THAT.

AGAIN, WE WANT YOUR QUESTIONS.

LET'S LOOK AT THE COMMON TYPES OF FRAUD.

LET'S START THERE.

LET US GO THROUGH SOME OF THE ONES AFFECTING PEOPLE RIGHT NOW THAT YOU ARE SEEING, GREG.

>> THE MOST PREVALENT AND YOU HEAR ABOUT IT IS CHECK FRAUD.

THERE IS A BROAD RANGE OF FRAUD HAPPENING IN FINANCIAL CRIMES AND WE'LL COVER SOME OF THE KEY ONES.

BUT STARTING WITH CHECK FRAUD, THE AMOUNT OF CHECK FRAUD OCCURRING IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY THAT DIRECTLY IMPACTS CUSTOMERS IS RAMPANT AND INCREASING.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH IS WHETHER IT'S A CHECK THAT GETS STOLEN FROM THE MAIL AND WHITE WASHED OR CHECK INFORMATION THAT IS COUNTERFEITED AND FRAUDULENTLY CREATED, YOU KNOW, THAT INFORMATION IS OUT THERE, ROUTING NUMBER AND ACCOUNT NUMBER IS ON EVERY CHECK SO WHEN THOSE THINGS GET OUT IN SPACE, YOU KNOW, FRAUDSTERS CAN GRAB HOLD OF THOSE AND TRY AND BANKS ARE TRYING TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT.

THERE ARE SPECIAL CHECK PAPER BUT PEOPLE BUY THE CHEAP CHECKS ONLINE OR WE HAVE CHECK REVIEW.

A LOT OF THE FRAUD HAPPENS IN BUSINESSES SO WE ARE PROVIDING TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWS EVERY BUSINESS TO APPROVE EVERY CHECK THAT HIT THEIR ACCOUNT.

ON THE RETAIL SIDE, ON THE CONSUMER SIDE WE REALLY NEED PEOPLE TO MONITOR THEIR STATEMENTS TO LOOK AT THE CHECKS CASHED AGAINST THEIR ACCOUNTS TO HAVE ONLINE BANKING BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE ONLINE BANKING, YOU CAN CHECK EVERY DAY TO SEE WHAT IS HITTING YOUR ACCOUNT.

WE NEED MORE DILIGENCE AROUND CHECK FRAUD.

NOW THE THING IS BANKS ARE COVERING THAT FRAUD.

PEOPLE ARE PROTECTED FROM CHECK FRAUD AND BANKS PROTECT THAT, CREATE A PROTECT BUT WE NEED YOUR HELP.

WE NEED CONSUMERS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS CHECK FRAUD OUT THERE AND THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO REVIEW THEIR STATEMENTS AND REVIEW THEIR ACTIVITY IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

THE DAYS OF BALANCING YOUR CHECKBOOK HAVE GONE AWAY WITH THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT THAT DOESN'T ALLEVIATE THE NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE WATCHING YOUR ACCOUNTS.

>> PAUL, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING NATIONALLY?

IS THAT KIND OF WHAT GREG IS DESCRIBING IS HAPPENING AND WHAT YOU ARE LOBBYING FOR FOR BETTER ENFORCEMENT.

>> WARE SEEING CHECK FRAUD.

I LIKE TO SAY THAT CHECK FRAUD IS AN INHERENTLY INSECURE FORM OF PAINT.

IF SOMEBODY SAYS GIVE ME A PIECE OF PAPER WITH YOUR NAME, ADDRESS ROUTING NUMBER AND BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER, WE WOULD NEVER GIVE THAT TO A STRANGER.

GREG IS ON POINT.

PEOPLE NEED TO BE CONSCIOUS OF AND NOT USE CHECKS IF THE AALL POSSIBLE.

THE OTHER THING THAT WE ARE SEEING BEYOND, YOU KNOW, THE OLD SCHOOL FRAUD LIKE THAT IS IMPOSTER SCAMS.

SO EVERYONE I THINK EVERYBODY LISTENING HERE TONIGHT HAS GOTTEN A RANDOM TEXT FROM SOMEONE, A FAKE FRAUD ALERT OR A PACKAGE NOT DELIVERED ALERT, SOME OTHER THING TRYING TO ENTICE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH THEM TO TRY TO PRETEND TO BE YOUR BANK, AMAZON, PRETENDING TO BE THE U.S.

POSTAL SERVICE TRYING TO GET YOUR ACCOUNT CREDENTIALS SO WE SEE THAT A LOT.

AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO FIGHT AGAINST BECAUSE THEY LOOK VERY LEGITIMATE.

AND WHAT WE TRY AND TELL PEOPLE, DON'T TRUST ANYONE THAT REACHES OUT TO YOU.

IT'S A SAD THING TO SAY BUT YOU CAN'T TRUST ANYONE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T VERIFY WHO THEY ARE.

THE ONLY TRUST THE PEOPLE YOU REACH OUT TO ON KNOWN AND TRUSTED NUMBERS.

WHEN WE LOOK AT THE TERMS LIKE SMISHING AND PHISHING THOSE ARE TIED IN WITH THIS.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THOSE TORE SOMEONE WHO MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND THOSE TERMS THE NON-TECHNOLOGY PEOPLE ARE THE ONES GETTING MOST VULNERABLE GETTING HIT.

>> YOU WHEN HEAR THE TERMS IT IS REFERENCING AN IMPOSTER REACHING OUT TO YOU, ACTING LIKE THEY'RE SOMEONE ELSE WHETHER IT'S AN EMAIL OR TEXT MESSAGE, IT MAY EVEN BE A PHONE CALL THAT APPEARS TO BE COMING FROM THE PHONE NUMBER IN YOUR CONTACT LIST OR THE INDIVIDUAL OR THE BANK.

>> OR THE BANK, RIGHT?

>> A TEXT MESSAGE FROM KISH BANK.

NO, YOU DIDN'T.

WE DON'T DO THAT.

WE DON'T ASK THAT INFORMATION.

THE ABA HAS A CAMPAIGN THAT WE HAVE BEEN RUNNING BANKS NEVER ASK THAT.

WE WERE SEEING A LOT OF FRAUD COPPING OUT OF COVID 2020, 2021, THE ABA CREATED THE BANKS NEVER ASK THAT CAMPAIGN.

WE USED THEIR TERSE, PUT THEM IN OUR BRANCHES, ON OUR WEBSITE AND STARTED TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE AND EDUCATE PEOPLE THAT BANKS DON'T ASK FOR YOUR CREDENTIALS.

BANKS DON'T SEND YOU A TEXT MESSAGE SAYING CRICK ON THIS.

THERE ARE ALERTS THAT YOU CAN CIEN SIGN UP TO BUT WE DON'T RANDOMLY REACH OUT TO YOU IN THOSE FORMS OR MANNERS SO THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO STOP.

AS PAUL SAID DON'T TRUST THAT INITIAL COMMUNICATION.

REACH OUT TO A PHONE NUMBER THAT IS PUBLISHED THAT YOU KNOW AND TRUST.

CALL AN INDIVIDUAL YOU KNOW AT YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY BANK AND ASK THEM HEY, IS THIS REAL?

THAT'S THE BIGGEST OPPORTUNITY.

SO WHEN THEY'RE PHISHING OR SMISHING, WITH TEXT MESSAGES, THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO GET YOU TO BITE.

IT'S JUST LIKE FISHING, RIGHT.

YOU ARE TRYING TO GET A BITE.

AS SOON AS THEY GET A BITE, THAT'S WHEN THEIR REAL ENERGY COMES IN THEY START TO HIT YOU HARD WITH URGENCY AND PRESSURE AND HAVE YOU TO DO THIS AND YOU HAVE TO DO THAT.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING, URGENCY, RIGHT, PAUL?

BOTH OF YOU HAVE BEEN STRESSING THAT.

THAT IS A COMMON CORE WITH ALL SCAMS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

THAT YOU HAVE TO REACT FAST AND THAT GETS INTO A WHOLE MIND SET.

>> YES.

>> YEAH, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO GET TO YOU DO, TO ACT NOT TO THINK.

AND SO YOUR BANK IS NEVER GOING TO PRESSURE YOU-- NO LEGITIMATE BUSINESS IS GOING TO PRESSURE YOU TO MAKE A PAYMENT IMMEDIATELY.

NO LEGITIMATE BUSINESS IS GOING TO SAY HAVE YOU TO STAY ON THE PHONE WITH US AND DON'T TELL ANYONE ELSE ABOUT THIS.

NO LEGITIMATE BUSINESS IS GOING TO MAKE YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE BY PRESSURING TO DO SOMETHING.

IF THAT HAPPENS, HANG UP, GO TO THE BACK OF YAR CARD AND CALL AND SAY IS THERE SOMETHING GOING ON WITH MY ACCOUNT.

AND LIKELY THERE IS NOT ANYTHING WRONG THAT ACCOUNT.

>> WE HAVE SO MANY STORIES.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO WILL COME INTO OUR BRANCH.

THEY'RE ON THE PHONE WITH A FRAUDSTER.

THE FRAUDSTER IS LISTENING TO THE CONVERSATION WITH THE TELLER AND THEY'RE INSTRUCTING THEM WHAT TO DO.

AND HOW A TOTAL STRANGER HAS TALKED THE INDIVIDUAL INTO NOT TRUSTING THEIR BANKER INTO TRUSTING THIS STRANGE ERIN STEAD OF THE BANKER THEY USE VERY SAVVY VERY INTENSE TECHNIQUES.

AND YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD SITUATIONS WHERE WE SAY TO THE CUSTOMER AND WE TALKED ABOUT CHECK FRAUD.

YES, WRITING CHECKS MAKE SURE YOU ARE CHECKING BUT WHEN A CHECK COMES TO YOU THAT YOU DON'T EXPECT, IT'S FRAUD.

>> IF IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, THAT WONDERFUL ADAGE THAT... >> WE HAVE SOMEONE COMING INTO THE BRANCH WITH A 3,000 DOLLAR CHECK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CASH ON THEIR ACCOUNT.

THEY'RE BASICALLY WITHDRAWING THAT MONEY OUT OF THEIR ACCOUNT BECAUSE THAT CHECK HAS THOUGHT CLEARED THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

IT'S A BAD CHECK.

BUT THE PERSON ON THE PHONE IS SAYING IF YOU WANT THIS MONEY, OR IF YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN, WHATEVER THEY TALKED YOU INTO.

YOU HAVE TO CASH THE CHECK, TAKE THE CASH AND GO AND BUY A GIFT CARD.

OR HAVE YOU TO BUY BITCOIN AND SEND IT TO ME AND THEN WE'LL DO THIS AND THEY TALK THESE PEOPLE INTO THESE SCAMS GREG, WE ARE GOING TO BE HEARING FIRSTHAND PENNY, A LOCAL PERSON AND SHE HAS BEEN VERY FORTHRIGHT IN SHARING HER STORY, WHICH, SHE IS A REMARKABLE WOMAN WHO RUNS HER OWN COMPANY AND STILL WAS A VICTIM OF THIS FRAUD AND THIS SCAM.

WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THAT IN A LITTLE BIT.

CALLERS, WE WELCOME YOUR CALLS, TOO.

I HAVE HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS, BELIEVE ME.

WE WILL BE HERE ALL NIGHT BUT WE WOULD WHO HAVE TO HEAR YOUR PARTICULAR QUESTIONS.

SO IF YOU ARE JUST JOINING US THIS IS ""CONVERSATIONS LIVE"" AVOIDING SCAMS HERE ON WPSU.

CALL US AT 1-800-543-8242.

WE HAVE GREG HAYES.

AND PAUL, THE EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR RISK FRAUD AND CYBER SECURITY AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, THE AMERICAN BANKERS ASSOCIATION.

WE CAN TAKE YOUR EMAIL IF THAT IS EASIER FOR YOU.

JOT IT DOWN AND KENTUCKY CONNECT AT WPSU.ORG.

WE ARE STILL GOING THROUGH THE LITANY OF SCAMS BUT I HAD A SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT CREDIT CARD DISCUSSION.

CAN YOU GET IN THE WOODS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT'S RUNNING RAMPANT, TOO CREDIT CARDS NOT JUST THOSE ATTACHED TO YOUR COMMUNITY BANK OR WHEREVER YOU DO YOUR FINANCIAL BUSINESS.

THAT'S BIG.

>> YES.

TWO TYPES OF FRAUDS OCCURRING ON CARD.

YOUR CARD INFORMATION IS COMPROMISED AND WE'RE MONITORING THAT ACTIVITY WE HAVE SOPHISTICATED MONITORING CAPABILITIES BUT WEIGH NEED YOUR HELP AS WELL.

WE NEED YOU TO MONITOR YOUR ACCOUNT.

WHEN YOU SEE A FRAUDULENT TRANSACTION, USE THE TECHNOLOGY WE OFFER BUT SOME ALERTS ON YOUR CARD SO THAT IF THERE IS A TRANSACTION OVER $50 OR OVER 100 AND YOU NORMALLY DON'T USE THAT CARD FOR THOSE TRANSACTIONS YOU WILL GET AN ALERT ON YOUR PHONE CHECK YOUR ACTIVITY.

USE YOUR DIGITAL APPLICATIONS WE HAVE A CAPABILITY WHERE YOU CAN TURN YOUR CARD ON AND OFF WHEN YOU ARE NOT USING YOUR CARD, TURN IT OFF.

IT CAN'T BE USED.

THE SCARED NUMBER IS SECURE.

TRANSACTIONS CAN'T FLOW.

TALK TO YOUR BANKER ABOUT WAYS TO SECURE TRANSACTIONS THROUGH YOUR CARD.

TO PROTECT YOUR CARD NUMBER SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE FRUSTRATION OF REPLACING YOUR CARD OR CHANGING AUTOMATIC PAYMENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING THROUGH YOUR CARD.

THE OTHER TYPE OF FRAUD IS BUYING FRAUDULENT ITEMS.

YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, YOU GET AN EMAIL ADDRESS.

IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE THOSE BEAUTIFUL SUNGLASSES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING OR THOSE SPECIAL HEAD HEADPHONES AND THEY'RE HALF THE PRICE OR A QUARTER OF THE PRICE.

AND YOUR FRIEND SEND YOU THE LINK TO IT.

>> GOOD FRIEND.

OR REAL FRIEND SHARING SOCIAL MEDIA.

YOU CLICK ON IT AND GO TO A WEBSITE.

YOU ARE NOT BUYING A REAL PRODUCT AND MOST OF THE TIME WILL YOU NOT GET THE PRODUCT BUT WILL YOU SEE THE ACTIVITY ON YOUR CARD AND THAT'S FRAUDULENT ACTIVITY SO, YOU KNOW, DON'T CLICK ON LINKS.

GO DIRECTLY TO THE RAY BAN SITE OR WHATEVER THE SUN GLASSES OR HEAD PHONE SITE YOU ARE LOOKING AT OR GO TO AMAZON AND BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO BUY BUT DON'T BELIEVE THOSE THINGS YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE OR THE A LOT OF CASES JUST GOOGLE XYZ SCAM.

>> STOP AND THINK.

THAT'S STILL THE STOP FACTOR FROM THE BANKING PERSPECTIVE, LARGER BANKING PERSPECTIVE, YOUR STOP AND THINK PROGRAM, BANKS NEVER ASK THAT.

I MEAN YOU ARE TRYING TO TAKE THAT PROACTIVE MEASURE TO THWART SOME OF THE GUYS BEFORE THEY GET IN TBRONT OF YOU OR IN FRONT OF YOUR SCREEN.

>> WE ARE TRYING.

WE HAVE BANKS NEVER ASK THAT.COM.

THIS IS A QUIZ YOU CAN TAKE TO TEST YOUR TEST AWARENESS.

WE HAVE A PRACTICE SAFE CHECKS.COM WEBSITE THAT GIVES YOU TIPS TO PRACTICE SAFE CHECKS.

>> EASY FOR YOU TO SAY.

>> MY FAVORITE THING IS ABSTINENCE.

DON'T WRITE A CHECK IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT IF YOU HAVE TO RIGHT A CHECK, PRACTICE SAFE CHECKS TRYING ED EDDIED INDICATE THE CONSUMERS.

BANKS DO MORE THAN ANY INDUSTRY TO PROTECT CUSTOMERS FROM FRAUD.

WE MONITOR YOUR TRANSACTIONS.

WE SEND YOU FRAUD ALERTS.

WE WANT TO KNOW WHY IS IT POSSIBLE TO SPOOF THE CALLERRIST D. EVERYBODY HAS GOTTEN A FAKE, IT SAYS THEIR BANK ON THE CALLER I.D.

WHEN IT'S NOT REALLY THEIR BANK.

SOCIAL MEDIA SITES HOST IMPERSONATION SITES THAT CONVINCE PEOPLE TO INVEST IN THESE CRYPTOINVESTMENT SCAMS.

SO WE ARE REALLY TRYING TO RAISE AWARENESS ACROSS INDUSTRY.

IT'S A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO PROTECT PEOPLE FROM SCAMS BANKS AND THE TRUST BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE PERSONAL PEOPLE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO GIVE OUT THINGS.

WHY IS IT OKAY TO TRUST THE TELLER AT THE FRONT LINE?

HOW IS THAT TRUST DEVELOPED AND WHY IS THAT THE SAFE PLACE TO TALK TO FOLKS ABOUT THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, ESPECIALLY AT COMMUNITY BANK.

OUR REPUTATION OUR-- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO COME TO US IF IT PERCEIVED WE ARE ZAIRING THAT INFORMATION CONFIDENTIALITY IS NOT ONLY THE LIFE BLOOD OF HOW WE OPERATE, IT'S A REGULATORY REQUIREMENT.

WE GET TESTED ON THE LEVEL OF CONFIDENTIALITY MEASURES THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE.

WE WANT TO YOU TRUST US BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE YOUR FINANCIAL ADVISER.

WE WANT TO BE THE CONSULTANT WHO HELPS YOU THROUGH THESE DIFFICULT TIMES AND IT'S CRITICAL THAT THE FOLKS, YOU KNOW, HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND TRY IT OUT.

ASK THEM QUESTIONS.

SEE-- MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT BANK FOR YOU IF YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE.

MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT BANKER FOR YOU BUT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEIR BANKER.

BANKING SHOULD NOT BE JUST A DIGITAL APPLICATION.

BANKING NEEDS TO BE A RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR MONEY, YOUR LIVELIHOOD.

FOR MANY PEOPLE, THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT THAN MAKING SURE THEIR MONEY IS SAFE AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR BANK IS THE KEY TO ACHIEVING THAT.

WE WANT TO TAKE YOUR CALLS.

GIVE US A CALL AT 1-800-543-8242.

IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, A PERSONAL QUESTION YOU CAN SAY YOUR FIRST NAME AND WHERE YOU ARE CALLING FROM AND OUR BANKERS ARE EXPERT TO ANSWER WAS YOU MIGHT HAVE.

LET'S TALK DEMOGRAPHICS.

WHO IS MORE VULNERABLE.

I HAVE THE GRAY HAIR.

I'M DEFINITELY A TARGET MARKET BECAUSE I'M VERY FORGIVING AND I BELIEVE EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

I MEAN I DON'T THINK THAT ANYBODY WOULD CAUSE HARM TO ME.

ARE WE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE AS IT HAS BEEN TARGETED IN THE BEGINNING?

>> YOU KNOW, YES BUT YOU ARE ALSO WHO THEY GO AFTER.

YOU HAVE LARGER BALANCES.

YOU ARE LATER IN LIFE, LATER IN CAREER.

YOU HAVE AMASSED SOME WEALTH.

YOU HAVE GOT A LARGER CHECKING ACCOUNT BALANCE.

THEY'RE GOING TO TARGET YOU BECAUSE THEY CAN GET MORE THEY MAY GO AFTER SOMEONE IN COLLEGE BUT THEY KNOW THERE IS ONLY $100 IN THAT ACCOUNT.

>> NOT A BIG TAKE.

>> SO THAT'S PART OF IT BUT I THINK EVERYONE, HUMAN NATURE, TRUSTING PEOPLE ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THESE OPPORTUNITIES.

THE OTHER VERY SUSCEPTIBLE FOLKS ARE THOSE IN FINANCIAL DISTRESS.

WHEN YOU ARE GOING THROUGH DIFFICULT TIMES AND FINANCIALLY STRESSED, YOU ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO BELIEVE ONE OF THE INVESTMENT SCAMS OR A ROMANCE SCAM.

>> YOU WANT TO BELIEVE.

YOU WANT TO.

YOU HAVE THAT EMOTION THAT PLAYS INTO IT.

>> EXACTLY.

AND THEY KNOW HOW TO TARGET PEOPLE.

BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THIS INDUSTRY AND COVID FUNDED THEM WITH A WAR CHEST TO BUILD TECHNOLOGY TO HIRE STAFF.

THAT'S INCREDIBLE.

ONE STATISTIC THAT STARTED ME.

PAUL, IF COULD YOU WEIGH IN ON THIS BECAUSE DURING COVID THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT DOLLARS FUNNELED TO SMALL BUSINESSES AND STUFF THAT WAS PRIME BAIT FOR THESE SCAMMERS TO COME ON BOARD, RIGHT?

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, THE INSPECTOR GENERAL THERE ESTIMATED LOSSES DUE TO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FRAUD AT $200 BILLION.

$200 BILLION LOST.

NOW YOU GOT TO REMEMBER THAT THE WAY THEY EXECUTED THAT WAS THEY PHISHED FOR YOUR PERSONAL IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION.

YOUR NAME, DATE OF BIRDS, ADDRESS, WORK HISTORY, SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS.

THEY STILL HAVE ALL THAT.

AND NOW WHAT WE ARE SEEING THEM DO IS USE THAT IN THE SCAMS THEY'RE DOING NOW SO THEY MIGHT CALL UP.

THEY MIGHT HAVE THE CALLER I.D.

OF YOUR BANK MIGHT KNOW YOUR NAME, DATE OF BIRTH AND THE LAST FOUR OF YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THIS IS A CRIMINAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX.

THERE ARE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN CHINA AND OTHER COUNTRIES IN INDIA THAT ARE TRYING TO STEAL MONEY FROM YOU.

THEY DO THIS THOUSANDS OF TIMES A DAY AND THEY'RE REALLY, REALLY GOOD AT IT.

PEOPLE SHOULD NOT FEEL ASHAMED IF THEY FEEL THEY GOT DUPED INTO SOMETHING.

YOU ARE NOT BEING DUPED INTO IT.

YOU ARE CONVINCED BY AN EXPERT WHOSE JOB IT IS TO CONVINCE TO YOU GIVE AWAY YOUR MONEY.

THAT'S WHY WE SAY DON'T TRUST ANYONE.

TURN OFF YOUR INBOUND PHONE CALLS.

DON'T TRUST ANYONE CALLING YOU UNLESS THEY'RE IN YOUR CONTACT LIST BECAUSE THESE GUYS ARE GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO AND ANYONE CAN FALL FOR THESE SCAMS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

PAUL, WHILE WE STILL HAVE YOU ON HERE WE ARE GOING GO TO A SEGMENT IN A MINUTE BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT WHAT IS NEXT.

WHAT MORE WITH THE ABA IS DOING, DO WE NEED MORE FEDERAL REGULATION, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS ON THE FOREFRONT OR THE HORIZON I GUESS TO GET US BEYOND SOME OF THIS EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS.

>> WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE A CZAR THAT WILL SET UP A SCAM PREVENTION AND HOW CAN BANKS WORK WITH TELECOMS, HOW CAN WE WORK WITH SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES AND WORK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND LET'S ALL WORK TOGETHER TO PROTECT THE CONSUMER.

WE THINK THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE THE FIRST STEP AND THE OTHER PIECE IS HOW DO WE STOP THESE IMPERSONATIONS OCCURRING VIA TEXT MESSAGES ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WHY ARE WE ALLOWING THESE FAKE CRYPTOINVESTMENT SCHEMES ON THE INTERNET STEALING PEOPLE'S MONEY BY THE BILLIONS.

THAT'S STEP TWO.

WE REALLY NEED SOMEONE THAT CAN DEVELOP A NATIONAL STRATEGY FOR SCAM AND FRAUD PREVENTION.

>> PAUL BENDA.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH THE FRONT LINES AND WE ARE GOING TO BE JOINED WITH ANOTHER PORTION OF THIS EXPERT PANEL HERE TONIGHT BUT IN THE MEANTIME, WE DO WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS INTERVIEW THAT WAS DONE A SHORT TIME AGO WITH PENNY.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US FOR THIS VERY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION LIVE AVOIDING SCAMS.

JOINING ME IS PENNY, OWNER, FOUNDER AFTER PUBLISHER SHE HAS ENCOUNTER AID SCAM WHERE SHE IS BECOME IN A PUBLIC ARENA SHOWCASING WHAT WENT WRONG WITH HER SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO OTHERS.

LET'S START WITH GOING OVER WHAT HAPPENED THAT DECEMBER MORNING.

>> YEAH, NICE TO SEE YOU AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR INVITING ME.

I'M REALLY HAPPY TO SHARE MY STORY BECAUSE AS I LEARNED, I ACTUALLY KNEW NOTHING ABOUT SCAMS.

I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THAT PEOPLE GOT TRICKED.

I THOUGHT IT WAS FOR OLD PEOPLE WHO JUST WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

I THOUGHT YOU WERE FOOLISH TO FALL FOR A SCAM.

I LEARNED THE HARD WAY THAT SCAMS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN I ANTICIPATED.

IT HAS NOTHING WITH BEING STUPID.

IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE.

WHEN I LOOK BACK AT IT A YEAR LATER I STILL THINK HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE THAT I WAS SO MANIPULATED IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AND NOW I UNDERSTAND.

I LEARNED THE HARD WAY BUT I AM MUCH MORE AWARE AND USING MY EXPERIENCE TO ADVOCATE FOR OTHERS TO PREPARE THEMSELVES FOR WHEN THEY'RE UNDER ATTACK.

IT REALLY IS LIKE I FELT LIKE I HAD A GUN TO MY HEAD THE ENTIRE TIME.

>> WALK US THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU THAT DECEMBER MORNING, PEN AGREE SO I HAD JUST COME BACK FROM YOGA I WAS RELAXED, SITTING ALONE IN MY LIVING ROOM WORKING ON MY COMPUTER AND MY PHONE RANG AND THESE SCAMMER CALL HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE AND HIT THE ONE IN THE RIGHT SITUATION AT THE RIGHT MOMENT WITH NOBODY ELSE IN THE ROOM IN A VULNERABLE POSITION TO ARE WHATEVER REASON AND THEN THEY JUST COME IN HARD AND FAST.

THE THINGS THE SCAMMERS USE WHEN THEY CALL YOU UP IS AUTHORITY, URGENCY AND SECRECY.

AND WHEN I GOT MY PHONE CALL IT WAS FROM THE U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PATROL.

THAT'S WHERE IT WAS FROM AND I IMMEDIATELY WAS LIKE THIS DOESN'T SOUND LEGITIMATE AT ALL.

BUT THEY ALSO CAME IN WITH ARE YOU PEN EL BY, IS THIS YOUR ACCOUNT INFORMATION, THIS IS YOUR ADDRESS AND CAME IN WITH ALL KINDS OF INFORMATION ABOUT ME.

AND IT WAS ENOUGH INFORMATION FOR ME TO STAY ON AND SAY HEY, I WOULD LIKE SOME PROOF THIS IS REALLY YOU.

STILL SOUNDS LIKE A SCAM.

I WAS NOT-- THEY CAME AND SAID SO WERE YOU RECENTLY IN MEXICO.

WE RECEIVED A PACKAGE, WE INTERCEPTED A PACKAGE FROM MEXICO TO EL PASO, TEXAS.

FROM MARY RODRIGUEZ TO THIS ADDRESS FILLED WITH DRUGS AND MONEY AND I'M LIKE YEAH, OBVIOUSLY NOT ME.

DOES NOT SOUND LIKE ANYTHING.

THIS IS NOT ME CLEARLY.

AND I SAID WELL WE DON'T THINK IT'S YOU BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET YOUR NAME CLEARED.

>> YOU DO TRAVEL.

AND YOU TRAVEL INTERNATIONALLY SO THIS WAS SOME LEGITIMACY TO THIS QUEERY?

>> INFORMATION THAT THEY PROVIDED WAS ENOUGH FOR ME TO BE LIKE OKAY, THEY KNOW A LOT ABOUT ME.

AND I SAID I WOULD REALLY LIKE VERIFICATION.

SHE SAID OF COURSE, I'M SO GLAD YOU ARE AWARE OF SCAMMERS.

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU ARE BEING PROACTIVE AND PLEASE GO TO THE U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER CONTROL SIGHT.

YOU CAN LINK THROUGH TO THE EL PASO OFFICE.

LOOK UP MY NAME, SEE MY NUMBER IS SO AND SO.

THIS IS MY NAME AND THIS IS MY NUMBER.

SO CALL ME.

I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND CALLED AND SOMEHOW WHILE I WAS CALLING OUT, THEY CALLED IN AND I WAS BACK ON THE PHONE WITH HER I HAVE VERIFICATION THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY THE U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER AND THEN MY ENTIRE SCEPTICISM WAS LIKE SOMETHING WEIRD IS GOING ON.

I BETTER LOOK INTO THIS I'LL STAY ON AND SEE WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY, SHE GAVE ME ALL KINDS OF VERY, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO OR YOU CAN DO IT OR I DON'T EVEN AND WE CAN FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO GET YOUR NAME CLEARED SO THIS WARRANT NOW ISN'T GOING TO BE LIKE DIRECTLY AFFECTING YOU AND NOTHING BAD HAPPENS TO YOU AND SHE ALSO MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT IT'S URGENT THAT THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING, THEY ACCOUNTIVELY THOUGH WHERE I AM AND PUT ENOUGH INFORMATION QUICK ENOUGH AND THIS IS WHAT I DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHEN IT WAS HAPPENING BUT LOOKING BACK AT IT AND LEARNING ABOUT HOW THE BRAIN WORKS IS THEY PUT ME IN FIGHT OR FLIGHT AND FROM THAT POINT, EVEN THOUGH IT SHUTS DOWN YOUR FRONT AFERL CORTEX-- YOUR FRONTAL CORTEX.

STILL NOT REALLY BELIEVING THIS IS ISN'T LEGITIMATE, THAT PART OF MY BRAIN JUST SAID DO WHAT I'M TELLING YOU TO DO RIGHT NOW.

>> BELIEVING YOU WERE IN A PANIC MODE, WHAT DID THEY ASK TO YOU DO.

>> THE FIRST WOMAN SAID THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COOPERATING.

I'M GOING TO SEND YOU TO THE FBI AND THEY'RE ON THE CASE AND THEY WILL TAKE IT FROM HERE.

I WAS SENT TO ANOTHER OFFICE IN BUFFALO.

THE THINGS YOU ARE SAYING DON'T SOUND LEGITIMATE.

CAN YOU TELL ME LIKE WHAT TOWNS ARE NEAR YOU IN BUFFALO?

AND HE WAS LIKE WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME THESE QUESTIONS.

JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE WHO YOU 15 I YOU ARE.

AND HITS TEAM AROUND HIM SOMEWHERE IN INDIA OR WHEREVER THEY WERE IN THE WORLD, WERE LOOKING UP TOWNS AND HE STARTS RATTLING OFF THE TOWNS IN BUFFALO AND HE JUST MANIPULATED ME FOR-- I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT ALL HE WAS SAYING FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

HE WAS JUST GOING INTO DETAILS ABOUT HOW THE MONEY THAT I HAVE IN MY ACCOUNTS IS IN JEOPARDY SO HE LISTED THE ACCOUNTS HE KNEW WHICH BANKS I HAD ACCOUNTS AT SO AGAIN, FELT SOMEHOW LEGITIMATE AND A THREAT TO ME AND MY BRAIN DEFINITELY THOUGHT IT WAS A THREAT.

SO HE AT SOME POINT SAID YOU NEED TO NOW GO TO THE BANK AND SECURE YOUR FUNDS AND WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IS PUT THEM INTO CRYPTOTO SECURE THEM FOR YOU UNTIL TOMORROW AND THEN THE LOCAL POLICE WILL COME AND RETURN YOUR FUNDS AND IT WILL ALL BE OKAY AND WE CAN GET THEM THIS WAY.

>> SO HAVE YOU EVER USED CRYPTO BEFORE?

>> NEVER USED CRYPTO.

HAD NO CLUE ABOUT IT.

AND THE CRAZY THING IS, AND THIS IS WHERE HAVE I TO SAY THE BANKS HERE DID NOT SERVE ME WELL THIS FELLA SAID YOU NEED TO GO TO THE BANK AND CLEAR OUT YOUR ACCOUNTS AND FORTUNATELY I DON'T HAVE A LOT IN MY OWN ACCOUNT BUT MONEY IN MY NON-PROFIT AND IN MY DAUGHTER'S ACCOUNT STILL ATTACHED TO MINE SO I WENT TO MY BANK AND WITHOUT BLINKING AN EYE, THEY HANDED OVER A BIG LOAD OF CASH.

ALL IN CASH AND I HAD TO GO BACK.

I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT BRINGING A BAG IN FOR THE PILES OF CASH.

AND THEY HANDED IT OVER TO ME AND SAID NEXT TIME YOU NEED LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY FROM TWO ACCOUNTS THAT WEREN'T REALLY IN MY NAME, WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN A RED FLAG FOR THE BANK, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE EXPLAIN THIS THE SITUATION AS BEING IN A TRANCE THAT YOU CAN'T GET OUT OF.

I WAS COG IT IN COGNIZANT.

I SAID I DON'T THINK I SHOULD BE DOING THIS.

I DON'T THINK I SHOULD BE DOING THIS.

THIS IS NOT SEEM LIKE THE FBI WOULD BE TELLING ME TO DO THIS.

HE SAID YOU NEED TO GET IN THE CAR NOW.

AND THAT URGENCY AND THAT ORDER AND I WAS IN THE CAR.

>> ME SAID YOU NEED GO TO THE-- GO TO THE CASINO SMOKE SHOP AND I'M LIKE WHAT?

THERE IS NO WAY THE FBI WOULD ASK ME TO DO THIS.

YOU NEED GO THERE NOW.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU ARE GOING TO BE SECURE.

YOU ARE NOT IN A SAFE SITUATION.

AND MY BRAIN SAID GO IT IN THE CAR AND DRIVE.

SO REALLY NO CLUE ABOUT ANY OF THIS, NO IDEA HOW THIS MACHINE WORKS AND THE GUY, SOME KID WORKING THE DESK NEVER EVEN LOOKED UP.

AND I WENT TO THIS MACHINE AND FIGURED IT OUT AND STARTED SHOVING HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS INTO THE MACHINE.

>> AND YOU WERE ON THE CELL THE WHOLE TIME SO WHEN DID IT HIT YOU THAT IT WAS A SCAM MY ANALOGY FOR HOW I GOT OUT OF IT.

I PUT ALL THE MONEY FOR THE NON-PROFIT AND THE MONEY OUT OF MY DAUGHTER'S ACCOUNT AND JUST LIKE IF THERE WAS A HOUSE THAT WAS BURNING AND I HAD A TABLE ON ME, I WOULD THROW IT OFF, RUN OUT AND I REALIZED MY DAUGHTER WAS IN THERE, I WOULD OVERRIDE MY-- MY MAMA BRAINING IS REALLY STRONG.

I SAID THERE NO, SIR WAY YOU ARE TAKING MY DAUGHTER'S MONEY NOW AND THAT'S WHEN-- I COULDN'T JUST HANG UP.

I HAD TO SAY I HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM.

HE SAID TAKE ME WITH YOU.

I SAID YOU ARE NOT GOING WITH ME.

SO I CALLED HIM BACK THE SAME WAY I CALLED THE WOMAN AT THE OTHER PLACE AND HE WAS BACK ON THE PHONE.

I SAID I'M CALLING THE LOCAL POLICE.

I HUNG UP, CALLED THE LOCAL POLICE AND I GET THIS GUY WITH A INDIAN ACCENT WITH THE NUMBER I DIALED OUT.

THEY HAVE INTREPPED MY PHONE AND I'M LIKE THERE IS NO WAY YOU WORK IN THE STATE COLLEGE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I ASKED FOR OFFICER FRIENDLY WHO HAD GIVEN ME MY DRIVER'S LICENSE TEST IN 1984.

AND I WAS LIKE ABLE AT THAT MOMENT, TO BE ABLE OH MY GOD THIS IS JUST-- I JUST GOT-- I FELT LIKE I WAS AT GUNPOINT ATTACKED AND REALIZED I HAD BEEN ATTACKED.

AND THEN CALLED 911 AND ACTUALLY GOT A POLICE OFFICER TO COME AND REPORT IT AND SHOW UP.

WHO BASICALLY SAID THERE IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO.

THE MONEY IS GONE.

SORRY IT HAPPENED.

>> SO RATHER THAN HIDE ABOUT ALL THIS YOU HAVE COME OUT VERY PUBLICLY AND OPENLY IN YOUR NON-PROFIT AREA AND BRIEFLY LET'S GO THROUGH WHAT YOU ARE NOW SAYING TO HELPS OTHERS WHO MIGHT BE SCAMMED IN THIS WAY.

>> NUMBER ONE, I KNEW IF I DIDN'T TALK IT ABOUT IMMEDIATELY, I WOULD BE MORTIFIED AND THE PEOPLE I HAVE TALKED TO THROUGH AARP GRUCHES, WONDERFUL THERAPY GROUPS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SCAMMED.

SOME OF THEM IT HAS HAPPENED A YEAR AGO AND WON'T TELL ANYBODY BECAUSE THEY'RE MORTIFIED AND THAT MORTIFICATION I KNEW WOULD FREEZE ME AND I WOULD BE DONE.

SO I WAS LIKE THE FIRST NIGHT I WROTE AND I POSTED IT ON FACEBOOK AND I GOT ATTACKED THE NEXT MORNING.

YOU ARE SO STUPID.

OH MY GOD AND I HAD A LOT OF FRIENDS SAY THAT IS TERRIBLE.

IT HAPPENED TO MY PARENTS AND TO SO AND SO.

BUT THEN I STARTED LEARNING ABOUT THE AMYGDALA.

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME DOING THE RESEARCH WHAT HAPPENED TO ALLOW ME TO DO THIS AND WHEN I FINALLY REALIZED THERE IS A WAY OF JUST TAKING OVER YOUR MIGDALIA ON SOCIAL ENGINEERING, IT IS USED IN ADVERTISING AND VARIOUS OTHER WAYS, POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING SOMETHING THAT THEY MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY BELIEVE BUT IT JUST GETS YOU INTO THAT FURY OF FIGHT OR FLIGHT AND WHEN I UNDERSTOOD THAT, I WAS LIKE I NEED TO SHARE THAT EXPERIENCE BECAUSE EVERYBODY WHO SAID I'M SO SORRY YOU FELL FOR IT, WAY LOOSE LIKE I DID NOT FALL FOR IT.

I HAD A GUN TO MY HEAD AND I HAD-- THERE WAS LIKE NO OTHER COURSE OF ACTION IN THOSE MOMENTS.

SO WHAT I LEARNED TO DO.

THE FIRST THING I LEARNED TO DO AFTER SPEAKING TO ABOUT IT WAS WHEN THE PHONE RANG, SINCE I HAVE BUSINESSES AND THEY'RE ALL ON THE SAME LINE, I CAN'T JUST NOT ANSWER THE PHONE.

I COULD LET EVERYTHING GO TO VOICE MAIL FIRST BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO MIKE SENSE TO ME.

I SAID WHEN THE PHONE RINGS, I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT I AM IN HEIGHTENED AWARENESS.

WHEN THE PHONE WOULD RING, I WOULD GO HA, I'M READY.

AND THEN THE PHONE WOULD RANGE, I WOULD BE LIKE YOU ARE INTERESTED IN A BOOK VENDING MACHINE.

I WOULD LOVE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT.

IF IT WAS A SCAMMER OR JUST LIKE I GET SCAM MESSAGES DAILY, I WOULD JUST WOULD BE NO, NOT TALKING TO YOU, HANGING UP IMMEDIATELY.

>> FOR PEOPLE HEARING YOUR STORY RIGHT NOW.

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN SCAMMED AND TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN SCAMMED?

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SCAMS, NO BLAME.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING SOMEBODY SHOULD BE BLAMED FOR.

IF IT HAPPENED TO YOU, THERE IS NO BLAME.

YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT.

YOU HAVE BEEN ATTACKED.

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT.

TALK TO SOMEBODY LIKE LET PEOPLE KNOW IT HAPPENED TO YOU.

DO NOT HOLD IT TO YOURSELF BECAUSE PEOPLE I HAVE SEEN WHO HAVE LOST MILLIONS IN THESE AARP GROUPS, THEY ARE SUICIDAL, THEY ARE-- THEY HAVE NO WILLINGNESS TO LIVE ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY FEEL SO ASHAMED THEY DID THIS TO THEIR FAMILIES AND IT'S TERRIBLE.

TELL YOUR LOVED ONES ABOUT IT AND HELP THEM UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME.

IT WAS AN TACK.

NUMBER ONE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

>> FOR THOSE LISTENING OR WATCHING WHO THINK THAT THEY DON'T EVER WANT TO PICK UP THE PHONE AGAIN NOW, WHAT SHOULD FOLKS DO WHEN THEY ANSWER THE PHONE AND POSSIBLY SUSPECT A SCAM?

>> WHEN THEY COME AT YOU WITH THESE AUTHORITY SECRECY RED FLAGS.

SUPER RED FLAGS IMMEDIATELY BEFORE THEY GET YOU.

SO UNFORTUNATELY WERE A.I., SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT THEY DO, THEY GET YOU ON THE FIRST CALL.

THEY CAN CALL WITH YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER'S VOICE SAYING GRAMMY, GRANNY, I'M AT THE ROADSIDE HELP.

AND THEN YOUR GRANDMOTHER BRAIN GOES INTO FIGHT OR FLIGHT SO HAVE YOU TO HAVE LIKE MAYBE A CODE WORD FOR YOUR FAMILY MEMBER.

SAY HEY, SUSIE, WHAT IS THE CODE WORD AND IF THEY DON'T KNOW IT BE LIKE I'M HANGING UNTHE PHONE.

HANGING UP THE PHONE IS A GOOD THING.

IMMEDIATELY CALLING SOMEONE TO YOUR SIDE IF YOU HAVE SOMEONE IN THE HOUSE WITH YOU SAY HEY THIS SEEMS DUBIOUS.

REALLY JUST HANG UP THE PHONE.

HANG UP THE PHONE EVEN THOUGH IT FEELS IMPOSSIBLE TO DO IN THAT MOMENT, IF YOU CAN HANG IT UP BEFORE THEY GET YOU, HANG UP THE PHONE.

IF IT'S IMPORTANT, NONE OF THESE AGENCIES WILL CALL YOU.

THEY'LL COME TO YOUR DOOR WITH A POLICE ESCORT SO IF IT IS IMPORTANT, THEY WILL SEE YOU IN PERSON.

>> WHAT NEXT STEPS SHOULD THE BANK GOVERNMENT AND OTHER AUTHORITIES DO TO HELP PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING TO OTHERS.

>> ONE, THE LANGUAGE, ALMOST ALL OF-- THERE ARE A LOT MORE ARTICLES IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AND CNN, THEY TALK ABOUT HOW SO AND SO, IMPORTANT PERSON FELL FOR A SCAM.

CHANGE THE LANGUAGE.

THEY DID NOT FALL FOR A SCAM.

THEY WERE ATTACKED.

WE ARE VICTIMS, SURVIVORS BUT WE ARE NOT AT FAULT CHANGE THE LANGUAGE SO IT'S NOT SUCH A THING TO BE MORTIFIED ABOUT.

MORTIFICATION FACTOR IS HUGE, ONE OF THE STRONGEST EMOTIONS THAT WILL SHUT YOU DOWN.

THERE SHOULD BE SIGNS OF EVERY CRYPTOMACHINE SAYING IF THIS IS NOT SOMEBODY YOU KNOW PERSONALLY IF IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU ARE SUPPOSE ED TO BE DOING, DO NOT PUT MONEY NO THIS MACHINE.

THERE SHOULD BE GOOD REGULATION TO STOP THAT AND SOME ACCOUNTABILITY THAT THINGS CAN BE TRACED BECAUSE THE OFFICER SAID IT'S GONE.

THE MONEY IS GONE.

IT'S LIKE HERE IN THE PEDESTAL, IT'S PHYSICALLY RIGHT HERE.

HE SAID THAT MONEY IS GONE.

IT CAN'T BE TRACED.

IT'S GONE.

THERE SHOULD BE REGULATIONS.

AND BANKS SHOULD BE JUST BE SAYING HEY, I HAVE LIVED IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR 55 YEARS.

I KNOW MY BANKERS.

THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID HEY, PENNY, WHO YOU ARE YOU DOING TODAY.

ARE YOU OKAY?

YOU GOT A BIG PROJECT COMING UP THAT YOU ARE TAKING ALL THE MONEY FROM YOUR NON-PROFIT AND YOUR DAUGHTER?

IT WAS A VERY DUBIOUS TRANSACTION TO HAVE THAT MUCH CASH PULLED OUT, SOMETHING I WOULD NEVER DONE AND HAVE NEVER DONE IN THE PAST THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION.

>> AGAIN WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURAGE TO SHARE YOUR STORY AND SHARING THIS VERY VALUABLE INFORMATION TO HELP THOSE WHO MAY HAVE BEEN SCAMMED AND THOSE WHO POTENTIALLY ARE TARGETS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY I HOPE MY EXPERIENCE WILL HELP OTHERS.

>> THAT WAS PENNY.

WE TAPED THAT A SHORT TIME AGO.

THIS IS "CONVERSATIONS LIVE" AVOIDING SCAMS ON WPSU.

WE HAVE TONIGHT WITH US GREG HAYES WHO IS PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF KISH BANK AND NOW JOINING US WE HAVE MILTON BARTLEY, CO-FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF IMAGEQUEST.

1-800-543-8242.

WE ARE RAID TO TAKE YOUR CALLS AND SEND US EMAILS.

RIGHT AFTER THE BAT AND AGAIN FULL DISCLOSURE FOR THOSE JOINING ME.

I WORK AT KIST BANK AND I ASKED PENNY, KISH BANK WAS NOT THE BANK INVOLVED.

GREG WANTS TO GET A COMMENT OUT AND THEN MILL TON WE HAVE FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS FOR YOU, TOO.

>> MY HEART GOES OUT TO PENNY.

SHE IS SO RIGHT.

JUST THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF GUILT WE SEE PEOPLE GO THROUGH, IT IS SOUL CRUSHING.

AND I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THERE ARE SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES THUOUT THE EXPERIENCE SHE HAD THAT THOSE SCAMMERS AND THOSE FRAUDSTERS KNOW, THEY HAVE PREDICTED IT.

THEY HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT.

THEY HAVE FAILED A THOUSAND SEEMS TO KNOW HOW TO PREACT TO EVERYTHING THEY SAY HOW TO COMBAT EVERY POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM.

TAKE ME WITH YOU.

SO, YOU KNOW, SHE IS DOING EVERYTHING SHE SHOULD BE DOING AND WE APPRECIATE EVERYTHING SHE IS DOING.

THE FOCUS ON THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE TELLER, YOU KNOW, WE EXPERIENCE THE FRUSTRATION CUSTOMERS SHOW WHEN THEY COME IN AND SAY I NEED $10,000.

I NEED $20,000 AND WE ASK QUESTIONS.

WE GET PUSHBACK.

WE GET FRUSTRATED CUSTOMERS WHO SAY THAT IS MY MONEY.

YOU DON'T NEED TO ASK WHY.

AND WE REALLY NEED TRUST, WE REALLY NEED-- AND I KNOW IN PENNY'S SITUATION, IT IS HARD TO NOT BE FLUSTERED WITH THE GUN TO YOUR HEAD SO TO SPEAK SO WE ARE WORKING ON TRAINING TEAM MEMBERS JUST ACROSS THE INDUSTRY AROUND HOW TO SPOT THIS AND HOW TO HELP THIS SITUATION AND WE HIRE A LOT OF FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN AT THE BIGGER BANKS AND I KNOW BIGGER BANKS RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT AS CLOSE, RIGHT AND YOU A NOT KNOW THAT TELLER VERY WELL AND THERE MAY BE TURNOVER SO THE INDUSTRY IS WORKING REALLY HARD ON MAKING SURE WE'RE EDUCATING THE BANKS NEVER ASK THAT AND OTHER THINGS.

SO WE FRESH THE PARTNERSHIP WITH FOLKS LIKE PENNY WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

>> AND PART OF TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION IS HAVING PEOPLE AND HAVING THE CONVERSATION.

I DO WANT TO INVITE AGAIN OUR FRIEND MILL TOON BARTLY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS SECOND HALF OF OUR PROGRAM.

AGAIN, YOUR SPECIAL AS A VIRTUAL CHIEF INFORMATION SECURITY OFFICER FOR MANY COMPANIES AND I.T.

CONSULTANT PIONEER ADVANCE MANIES AND TOP TIER CYBER SECURITY.

HAVE YOU PROBABLY SEEN AND HEARD IT ALL, RIGHT, MILTON.

WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR INITIAL TAKE ON WHAT YOU JUST HEARD HAPPENING TO PENNY IN THIS INSTANCE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE PROGRAM.

I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY.

I SHARE WHAT GREG SAID.

I HAVE AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF EMPATHY FOR HER STORY.

I HAVE HEARD THOSE STORIES BEFORE.

SO IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME, UNFORTUNATELY AND IT WON'T BE THE LAST THAT I HAVE GOTTEN TO HEAR A STORY LIKE THAT AND OFTEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, AND I HAVE TO REMIND MYSELF, YOU KNOW WE DO NEED TO HAVE EMPATHY FOR THESE FOLKS BECAUSE IN OUR WORLD, THE FIRST REACTION IS OH MY GOSH, HOW COULD SOMEBODY FALL FOR THAT?

HOW COULD SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, BELIEVE THAT BUT TO GREG'S POINT, THIS HAS BEEN TRIED AND TRIED AND TESTED TO THE POINT THAT THESE BAD ACTORS HAVE IT DOWN AND IT'S REALLY PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE AND IT'S FRIGHTENING.

>> IT IS.

IT'S SCARE TOE HEAR HER RECOUNT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.

WE WANT TO TAKE A CALLER.

WE HAVE A CALLER ON THE PHONE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

WE HAVE STEVE FROM CLEARFIELD.

STEVE THANK YOU FOR WAITING YOUR QUESTION OR COMMENT TONIGHT.

>> GOOD EVENING.

>> I AM GOING TO MAKE IT BRIEF.

I RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE PUBLISHER'S CLEARING HOUSE SUPPOSED TO BE WITH 2,500,000 AND A CHECK MADE PERSONALLY TO ME.

LAWYERS AND FEES THAT I HAVE TO PAY TO GET THE MONEY.

ON THE PUBLISHER'S CLEARING HOUSE STATEMENT THERE WAS A STATEMENT, TELEPHONE NUMBER SECURITY CODE (INAUDIBLE) IT'S A BEAUTIFUL THING.

LEGITIMATE.

THE CHECK I HAD IN MY HAND RIGHT NOW COMES FROM THE TRUST OF RESERVATION 200 HIGH STREET BOSTON MASSACHUSETTS.

CITIZEN IS BANK N.A., 1441 BEACON AVENUE SUITE 190.

MIAMI FLORIDA.

>> OKAY.

STEVE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

LISTEN, WE HAVE TO LET OUR GUESTS RESPOND.

>> THE CHECK NUMBER IS 9,000.

NOW MY QUESTION IS WHEN I WENT TO THE BANK I SIGNED THE CHECK IS LEGITIMATE AS CAN BE.

I CAN TEXT IT TO YOU AND YOU CAN SEE IT.

I HAVE IT IN MY HAND RIGHT NOW AND YOU SAY THE CHECK IS NOT-- THERE IS NO MONEY IN THE BANK SO WE CALL THE CITIZEN BANK AND THEY SAY WE HAVE NO MONEY THERE.

I SIGNED THE CHECK BUT THE MONIES IN THE BANK DIDN'T ACCEPT IT.

IT WAS A FAKE.

I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

SO ANYHOW-- SO I FIND THAT OUT WHEN I CALL THE PUBLISHER'S CLEARING HOUSE AND THEY SAID YOU DIDN'T WIN ANYTHING.

THEY TRIED TO GET YOU.

SO I WANT TO MAKE A POINT THAT ANYONE ANYWHERE GET A CHECK DON'T FALL INTO IT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY CAN HANDLE IT IF YOU GET THE CHECK OF COURSE I HEARD ABOUT IT.

HOW THEY CAN SCAM YOU TO GET YOUR MONEY OR HOW YOU FALL INTO THE TRAP AND MY QUESTION IS IRMEAN THEY HAVE A USED TELEPHONE NUMBERS AND THEY-- IF I CALL SOMEBODY, MY NUMBER THERE IS.

>> THANK YOU, STEVE.

WE HAVE LIMITED-- >> THEY CALL FROM THE TELEPHONE COMPANY-- >> THANK YOU, SIR.

AND STEVE, WE HAVE LIMITED TIME.

I DON'T MEAN TO CUT YOU SHORT SIR I REALLY DON'T BUT WE REALLY WANT TO GET TO THE ANSWER HERE.

LET'S LET OUR GUESTS HERE ADDRESS SOME OF THAT JUST WHAT YOU-- AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH SORE FOR CONCERNS AND CALL.

GREG.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> I HAD A LITTLE TROUBLE HEARING.

>> WE SEE IT EVERY DAY.

THIS IS A TRADITIONAL CHECK SCAM.

LOTTERY SCHEME.

YOU HAVE WON SOMETHING.

WE NEED YOU TO TAKE THESE FUNDS, CASH, DEPOSIT THIS CHECK INTO YOUR ACCOUNT AND WIRE US MONEY.

YOU GET A FAKE OR FRAUDULENT CHECK THEY WANT TO YOU SEND REAL MONEY FROM YOUR ACCOUNT.

IT IS THE NUMBER ONE CHECK SCAM.

IT IS IS HARD TO CATCH THOSE FOLKS AND MAYBE MILTON CAN PROVIDE SOME OF THE INDUSTRY EXPERTISE ABOUT WHY IT IS SO HARD I APPRECIATE YOU TELLING THE STORY SO OTHERS WHO GET THESE LOTTERY SCAMS UNDERSTAND IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, YOU KNOW, YOU WON SOMETHING BUT SEND US MONEY FIRST?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

>> MILTON, WE GOT ABOUT EIGHT MINUTES LEFT AND I WANT TO GET YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS IN ON THIS SO CAN YOU WEIGH IN ON THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY I CAN PIGGY BACK ON WHAT GREG WAS SAYING.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO CATCH THESE FOLKS BECAUSE A: THEY'RE NOT IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

THEY'RE NOT SITTING, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE STREET IN STATE COLLEGE SENDING THIS MAIL.

THESE FOLKS ARE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY LIVING OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES IN COUNTRIES WHERE THERE ARE NO EXTRADITION RIGHTS EVEN IF YOU CAN TRACK THEM DOWN.

THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT TO DO.

THEY CAN GET THESE ACCOUNT NUMBERS, WASH THIS INFORMATION, AND IT'S-- AND THE OTHER THING THAT I HATE TO SPOOK BADLY MUCH THE FBI WILL TELL YOU FOR THE NINE OR $10,000, THEY CAN'T CHASE THESE.

IF THIS IS NOT A MILLION DOLLAR PLUS SCAM, THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH RESOURCES TO CHASE THESE AROUND SO THEY WANT YOU TO REPORT IT.

THEY WANT TO CAPTURE A FILE ON THIS AND THEY START TO AGGREGATE DATA.

AND WHEN THEY GET TO ENOUGH DATA THEY'LL GO TRY TO DO SOMETHING, TRIANGULATE THESE FOLKS BUT THEY'RE NOT SENDING AN AGENT TO GET YOUR $10,000 BACK.

UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S THE FACTS.

>> AND THE STRAWEDSTERS KNOW THAT.

THEY FRAUD TERES KNOW THAT.

THERE ARE MILLIONS A MONTH.

>> WE HAVE A CALL COMING IN ABOUT JOB SCAMS.

QUICKLY MILTON, CAN YOU ALSO TALK REAL BRIEFLY ABOUT CLICKING ON POTENTIALLY FRAUDULENT LINKS IN THE EMAIL.

THE SOCIAL MEDIA, THE TEXT MESSAGES.

YOU ARE THE EXPERT.

YOU HAVE SEEN THAT.

ANY GENERAL KNOWLEDGE WAS WE SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T BE DOING OR LOOKING FOR.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I HEARD IT SAID EARLIER IN THE EARLIER SEGMENT.

IF YOU ARE NOT EXPECTING SOMETHING, DON'T CLICK ON IT.

THAT'S EASIER SAID THAN DONE.

THE REALITY IS THERE ARE SO FEW THINGS THAT YOU ARE NOT EXPECTING.

I GET EMAILS FROM CUSTOMERS, THEY'LL SEND ME SOMETHING AND THEY WILL SAY IS THIS LEGIT AND I WILL SAY OF COURSE IT'S NOT LEGIT.

ARE YOU EXSPECTING SOMEONE TO SEND YOU SOMETHING FROM DOOK OW SIGN AND YOU WEREN'T.

BUT AGAIN I KNOW I LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE SO IT'S EASY FOR ME TO GET THAT WAY ABOUT IT.

I WILL SAY THIS.

THIS IS THE WAY THAT IT WORKS.

THEY FIRST WANT YOU TO CLICK ON THE PHISHING LINK AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL LIKE YOU CLICK ON A PHISHING LINK, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE SOME SMOKE COME OUT OF YOUR COMPUTER OR THERE IS GOING TO BE IMMEDIATE BAD THING THAT HAPPENS ON YOUR COMPUTERS.

OFTEN TIMES THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

YOU CLICK ON THE LINK, NOTHING HAPPENS.

IT'S BENIGN.

THEY'RE TRICKING YOU INTO GETTING CREDENTIALS, THEY USE YOUR CREDENTIALS TO GET INTO YOUR ACCOUNT AND WATCH YOUR COMMUNICATIONS FOR DAYS, WEEKS, EVEN MONTHS AND IF THEY CAN FIGURE OUT SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE GOT THAT IS COMING UP LIKE A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION, ONE THAT WE SEE A LOT IS IN HOME CLOSINGS, REAL ESTATE CLOSINGS WHERE THEY BECOME THE MAN IN THE MIDDLE AND THEY START TO REALIZE THERE IS GOING TO BE ESCROW FUNDS SENT.

THEY'RE GOING TO SEND WIRING INSTRUCTIONS, THEY CAN THEN CHANGE THOSE WIRING INSTRUCTIONS REROUTE THE EMAIL, SEND AN EMAIL WITH CHANGED WIRING INSTRUCTIONS SO YOUY YOU GET THE DOCUMENT.

YOU WIRE THE MONEY.

YOU THINK YOU ARE SENDING THE MONEY FOR REAL ESTATE CLOSING AND THE REALITY IS YOU HAVE SENT IT TO A FAKE ACCOUNT AND THEN YOU MAY NOT KNOW FOR 48 HOURS.

>> >> WE HAVE ONE CALLER WE HAVE FOUR MINUTES LEFT.

THIS IS A GREAT TOPIC.

WE ARE TIPPING THE ICEBERG.

JOSH, BRIEFLY CAN YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION THIS EVENING IS THIS.

>> YEAH, I GOT SCAMMED FROM A JOB THAT I APPLIED FOR THROUGH LINKEDIN AND I WAS SENT A CHECK FOR PERSONAL EXPENSES FOR START-UP.

AND IT WAS TO COVER AN ONLINE JOB FOR COMPUTER ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF EQUIPMENT AND I CASHED THE CHECK.

THERE WAS NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT AND I WAS TOLD TOLD TO PUT THE CURRENCY IN BITCOIN AS WAS REPORTED BEFORE.

AND AND I WAS SCAMMED.

AND AFTER IT HAPPENED, I GOT A CALL FROM MY BANK SAYING THE CHECK DIDN'T CLEAR AND BASICALLY I WAS WANTING TO KNOW HOW PEOPLE CAN PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM THE LAW IF THEY'RE FACING PERSECUTION FOR POSSIBLY, YOU KNOW, THE FALLOUT FROM THAT.

>> OKAY, THANK YOU, JOSH.

I THINK WORKING WITH YOUR BANK THE THING WE NEED PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT WHEN THEY'RE TRANSACTING BUSINESS, AND THEY TAKE A CHECK AND PRESENT IT TO THE BANK, THAT CHECK DOES THOUGHT CLEAR THE PROCESSING SYSTEM FOR SEVERAL DAYS.

AND SO UNTIL IT COMES BACK FULLY NEGOTIATED AND GOOD, THE MONEY IS NOT GOOD.

SO YOU CAN'T ACT ON THAT UNTIL THAT MONEY HAS BEEN COLLECTED AND THE CHECK HAS COME BACK AS CLEARED THROUGH THE FEDERAL SYSTEM.

THE PAYMENT SYSTEM AND SO THEN YOU CAN WIRE THAT MONEY OUT.

THEN YOU CAN GO BUY CRYPTO.

BUT THOSE ARE THE RED FLAGS.

IF YOU HEAR HERE IS A CHECK, SEND US BACK MONEY AND IF THEY'RE ASKING TO YOU SEND IT IN GIFT CARDS OR SEND IT WITH A WIRE OR SENT SEND IT WITH CRYPTO, THAT'S THE RED FLAG.

>> RED FLAGS.

TWO MINUTES LEFT.

I WANT TO ASK MILTON TO SUMMARIZE IF YOU CAN.

I APOLOGIZE WE DIDN'T GET ALL OF YOUR GREAT INSIGHT MILTON BUT IF YOU HAVE ONE BIG MESSAGE AS A TAKEAWAY TO OUR VIEWERS, OUR LISTENERS TONIGHT WHAT WOULD IT BE FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT, SIR.

>> THE BIGGEST TAKEAWAY I WOULD GIVE YOU IS TAKE A BREATH, TAKE A PAUSE.

I HEARD WE SPOKE ABOUT URGENCY IN THE FIRST SESSION AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE PLAYING ON.

SO ANY TIME SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS, YOU HAVE TO TAKE A BREATH AND TAKE A PAUSE AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO, YOU KNOW ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMEONE IN YOUR CIRCLE THAT IS IN THIS WORLD, A FRIEND OR SOMEONE IN CYBER WHO DOES THIS CALL YOUR BANK AND ASK FOR ADVICE FROM YOUR BANK.

YOUR BANKER IS TRAINED, AS GREG HAS MENTIONED TO AT LEAST RECOGNIZE THE RED FLAGS AND THEY WOULD BE A GREAT RESOURCE FOR YOU TO HELP TALK YOU OFF THE LEDGE.

>> OKAY.

AND GREG, ONE MINUTE LEFT.

YOUR SUMMARY.

YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ALL NIGHT ABOUT THESE THINGS.

>> WHEN YOU GET CONTACTED, PAUSE AS MILL TON HAS SAID.

REACH OUT TO THE INDIVIDUAL, REACH OUT TO THE ORGANIZATION.

DON'T CLICK ON ANYTHING MAKE SURE YOU ARE TAKING ACTION YOURSELF AND REALLY DOING THE DUE DILIGENCE TO VERIFY EVERYTHING.

WE CANNOT STRUFT L TRUFT ANYTHING THAT COMES AT US IN THAT MANNER, EVEN IF IT IS A JOB OFFER AND MAY SEAL LEGITIMATE OR A PROCESS OR A CHECK OR A TEXT MESSAGE THAT YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN-- WE JUST HAVE TO TALK TO SOMEONE WE KNOW.

WORK WITH YOUR LOCAL BANKER WE'VE BEEN TALKING WITH GREG HAYES THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF KISH BANK, PAUL BENDA THE EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR RISK, FRAUD AND CYBERSECURITY AT THE ABA, AND MILTON BARTLEY, CO-FOUNDER, PRESIDENT & CEO OF IMAGEQUEST.

I'M CAROLYN DONALDSON.

OUR NEXT EPISODE OF CONVERSATIONS LIVE WILL BE ON MARCH 20 WHERE WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE NCAA AND NIL.

FROM ALL OF US AT WPSU, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

REWATCH THIS AND PREVIOUS EPISODES OF "CONVERSATIONS LIVE" AND MORE OF YOUR FAVORITE WPSU PROGRAMS ON THE PBS APP.