I'm PJ O'Connell, a public affairs producer at Penn State Public Broadcasting.

And this is another segment of the Pennsylvania parade.

Along with our other producers.

I've been making documentary programs here in rural Pennsylvania for more than 25 years.

In that time, we've tried to produce a portrait of Central Pennsylvania, a cross-section of the lives, the difficulties, and the successes of the people who are our neighbors.

Making these documentaries has been a long learning experience.

We've learned a bit about the topics and issues that concern you and others.

But we've learned a good deal more about people.

What a person says or does about an issue that has become his or her personal challenge is more important to us than the statistics, the policy statements, and the expert opinions.

People are our real subject.

And one person was particularly important.

While we were producing a series of programs on poverty in rural Pennsylvania, we met a woman who changed the course of that series and also changed the course of our future documentary productions.

Darlene was her name-- a poor person in an economic sense.

She lived with her husband and four children in an isolated three-room hunting cabin.

Her water supply was a nearby mountain spring.

Her children's clothes and toys came from second-hand stores.

And what we learned from Darlene was how to watch, how to listen, how to keep our mouths shut and not ask too many questions.

What we also learned was that economic poverty, or at least economic difficulty, was tough, hard, but not hopeless.

Darlene, like many of the other people we've met through these documentary productions, was resilient and resourceful.

She was able to make it all work in her fashion.

We were the lucky ones.

We began to participate in Darlene's life to observe and to record.

And that's how this documentary was made-- sitting around drinking coffee, helping with the kids, visiting with Darlene.

NARRATOR: These mountains are a major influence on conditions in Blair County, Pennsylvania.

Not only geographic, but social and economic as well.

They have divided the county into 100 valleys and 1,000 hollows.

And in one of these hollows, we spent several months visiting with Darlene.

Well, I'm 28, and I got four kids, and I'm also married.

And I lived in Pittsburgh.

I was born in [inaudible] Hospital, but I was raised in Pittsburgh.

You're going to fall?

Oh, good God.

She did fall sports three times on that big rock right there.

And right now, I got a cry baby.

Go give her a bottle.

Don't choke her.

You'll hear after a bit.

So I got a husband.

I don't like to work.

And he doesn't want to get on DPA.

As a matter of fact, I want to leave him as far as that goes because he doesn't want to support for the kids.

And right now, he's supposed to be working.

I don't know.

He didn't call me yet.

[inaudible] I have to get up in the morning and take him.

I won't give him my car because I want a car.

He's got his car in the garage.

He's been in there three weeks now, and I can't find the trouble.

How about that?

And there was a woman in the DPA office said, if it was her, she'd do what she thought was right.

And of course, I don't know if she's married or not.

Get out of that.

I'm going to smack you.

It's cold out here.

Cold in there too.

And it's been a long time since I got him to get coal and wood, and that's about all gone.

And he won't see to get any more.

Get off of that cold chair.

Holy God.

INTERVIEWER 1: Want to talk to us about your house?

Is this your house?

No, we're renting, and it's too small.

Three rooms, you can har-- and freeze in it in the winter time.

INTERVIEWER 2: The landlord keep it up at all?

No.

INTERVIEWER 2: He never do anything for it?

No, our roof leaks, and I want to move out.

And he won't see that, then I get a house to move to.

And I can't find one myself because I got four kids, and people don't want kids in their houses.

You know what I mean?

And I won't get rid of the kids because that's my life, the kids.

Without them, I wouldn't want to live since I got them.

Before, I didn't like kids.

Now, I love them.

Quit eating that wash rag.

Oh, Jesus.

I can't wait till next year.

She'll go to school.

INTERVIEWER 2: Sooner or later found it-- you want a divorce.

Can you get the money together to get it?

Someone said if the girl gets it or the woman gets it, it's $400.

And if the man gets it, it's $600 or $800.

And that's pretty hard to scrape up.

I can't even scrape up $14, and that's how much we pay here-- $14.

That's why he doesn't want to move.

INTERVIEWER 1: A month?

A month.

But like I was telling him last night, when he had his own truck and he'd make three and a quarter, I could save 100 and some dollars out of each pay for things that we really need, like coal and wood and stuff.

And now, we can't even save $1 out for gas.

You can imagine $66 a week, how far that goes.

I mean two weeks-- $33 a week.

It causes us a lot of trouble when we have to pay the bank.

We don't got it.

They censor it.

They-- not the bank, but the hospitals send a threatening note.

They're going to put everything up for collection if we didn't pay the hospital bill for the boy.

The state paid for the three girls.

And they said if some of the monthly payments wasn't paid-- I don't see if they can do it or not.

But they always threaten everybody to get their money out of them.

So I always try to do the best I can.

He's not driving his own truck.

When he had his own truck, we was living, what you call-- well, not on top of the world, as they say, but we managed better.

We always had money left over from payday to payday because he had his own truck.

But he doesn't care, or he'd fix his own truck up.

INTERVIEWER 2: Did he finish high school?

My husband?

No quit in eighth grade.

INTERVIEWER 2: Did you finish?

Yes, I went 14 years.

Everyone said that's the smartest thing I did, and the dumbest thing was get married.

Of course, if we had money, I wouldn't live in a house like this.

But we have no water in the house, as you can see.

We have to carry it.

And we had that little stove in there to heat three rooms.

Freezing, isn't it, [inaudible].

When it's below zero, we freeze in this room and in the bedroom.

We roast in the middle room.

It takes-- well, last year, it took us six loads of wood and about six loads-- a ton of coal.

This year so far, we got three ton of coal and a load of wood.

INTERVIEWER 2: Does the cold warm better?

Well, I don't know.

I can't fare with coal.

I always drowned it out.

Yeah, don't you throw that in there.

I missed it anyway.

Don't you dare put anything in there, girl.

I usually burn wood in the daytime and coal at night.

[inaudible] bottle.

I got a bathtub for that.

Unfortunately, I'm too tired to clean it up.

Just wait a minute.

By the time I get her wet, there'll be a draft coming through there.

How about that.

Dirty face.

Dirty face.

How come you're so interested in what we do?

INTERVIEWER 1: We've, frankly, had a hard time getting people to talk to us about problems.

You were willing to talk, so that's why we came out.

Well, I suppose if you were in my shoes, you'd be willing to talk to most anybody.

INTERVIEWER 1: Well, I don't know.

Apparently some people don't.

Well, maybe some people-- I don't know.

Maybe they don't care, or maybe they care for nobody but themselves.

You know what I mean?

INTERVIEWER 1: Yeah.

Of course, I was kind of brought up in a kind of a childhood that we loved each other when we had time to be together.

But when one of us was sick, I kind of broke up the gang.

But we always cared what happened to one another.

If one of the neighbor kids would get sick, we'd all go together and get her something to get it well or get well cards or something.

Well, you know how it is.

In my neighborhood, it was nothing but boys.

That means there was a gang of boys.

How about that?

INTERVIEWER 1: I thought that was what every young lady wanted.

Not me.

I hate men.

All men want's just what they get.

[inaudible] They want to make kids, and they don't want to daddy them.

Of course, her daddy is alive, and he's willing to take care of her if I force him.

But I'm not going to force him because it's his responsibility.

[inaudible] You tickle on her belly, and she's laughing.

You're sliding, sweetie pie.

Now, there you are.

Oh, whoa, whoa, no, no.

Oh, don't bawl.

I know you just was sleeping on your belly for three hours.

But then I guess that's hopeless to get her a bigger house because I didn't like it here when Tracy was a baby.

I didn't like to live here.

I said, we had too many kids for all the bigger [inaudible].

This was more less for an old man, you know, or an old woman, but not with kids.

Oh my God.

Drive me nuts.

They got tricycles.

They can't ride them.

They get on the road.

They could ride them down the road.

But my god, they'd get killed.

Tracy, I said on the couch, I'm not telling you one more time.

But of course, I guess that's the way the ball bounces.

Some people have it made.

You know what I mean?

They're on DPA, and they get money from social security or something.

And they can afford what they want.

And other people can live in a dog house, and nobody cares.

You see what I mean?

And like, my dad don't like us living up here.

For one thing, the house is too drafty for the kids.

Another reason, when we get down, we can't get back up because that hill down here kind of stumps you because you kind of curve.

If it wouldn't be for the curve, the road would be pretty-- you know, as you could travel.

But we got stuck last year I don't know how many times down there.

Just before you got to the hill, you got to back up, try it again, back up, oh.

In there.

I better fix my fire.

Get out of the road.

It ain't out yet, but it's going on the verge out.

[inaudible] Hey, hey.

DARLENE: That bed's calling you.

Now, beat it.

Go on.

Go on.

Get.

Get up.

I've had enough of you.

[inaudible] You want me to call your grandpa?

Get up.

I don't see you out here again.

INTERVIEWER 2: [inaudible].

Can't you go on partial assistance?

I don't know.

I was going to talk over that woman with that the other day when she was here, but she was kind of in a hurry.

INTERVIEWER 2: Hmm, seems to me, that'd be worth finding out, you know, because you might even be able to do it without having your husband to sign for anything.

Just go ahead and do it.

See, I asked her about getting on DPA I happened to leave him, and she said, he'd have to sign that he wouldn't support the kids.

And I was supposed to go to JP and get a paper sent that he was supposed to support them.

And whether he did or not, that was between the DPA and him because the DPA will take over where he left off.

That's what she said.

Now, I don't know if it's worth it or not.

INTERVIEWER 2: Well, at least go ahead and find out how much additional money that would be.

Because the rate he's going, as soon as the snow gets about so high and everything freezes up, well, he's going to be out of a job until maybe May, June.

Last year, they didn't go back to work until July.

INTERVIEWER 2: What did you live on?

Love.

Now, oh, I need to see a crab in my water.

[inaudible] watch you don't fall.

You'll break your [inaudible].

Every time my husband comes down here, there's a thing in the bottom.

It better not be in there today.

I'll scream for bloody murder.

We got this-- my husband cleaned this out a couple times-- once.

It's not as clear as it usually is.

I don't know how he cleaned it.

I wasn't here when he did it.

INTERVIEWER 1: How often do you get water?

Who?

INTERVIEWER 1: Well-- Anybody?

INTERVIEWER 1: Yeah.

Well, we actually should get water more often than what we do.

Carries it up in the morning, and that's it.

As you can see, I bathed the kids and did the dishes all one day.

I don't usually do that.

I usually do the dishes one day and bath the kids the next in order to keep from coming after water because I can't let Tracey up there with the baby because she upsets her.

And whenever my son was here, we used to get water about six times a day.

That's how much water it took.

That'd be nice.

He'll come up here and catch a man down here at my spring.

I don't know how [inaudible].

I about killed myself on that thing there.

I was carrying Blair.

I felt right on it.

About killed us both, put it that way.

This is where it gets to my dad.

Whenever he comes down, he can't make it up the hill.

Oh my God.

There I made it, but I did get wet that time.

I'll make it.

Oh.

But I'll tell you, it's really hard taking care of four kids in three rooms.

It's hard because once you get started-- say, you're readying up a room, the baby starts bawling.

You got to run.

You got to drop everything, and then you forget where you're at or where you left off at.

And then you got to do it all over again.

And it takes twice as long to get done.

Like that day [inaudible].

After she left, I didn't even know where I started or where I stopped.

Bonnie got one of them choking fits like she gets, and I had to stop him.

And I just felt like letting it all-- letting it the way it was.

The heck with it.

And I finally got her to sleep and Blair asleep.

And then I had Tracy to worry about.

She was outside more than she was in without a coat on till Terry come.

Then they was both outside.

It woke the kids.

Then I was back in the same boat.

Get your socks on.

You dummy, you.

You're as dumb as your daddy.

TRACY: Going to put this sock on.

DARLENE: The rougher for you are with these kids, better they like it, all three of them.

I believe you got your sister's socks on, Tracy.

TRACY: I do.

DARLENE: Good for you.

Hope they keep your feet warm.

TRACY: [inaudible].

DARLENE: [inaudible] --calls her [inaudible].

TRACY: And he remembers [inaudible].

DARLENE: Stop that.

[inaudible].

Hold still.

You got cereal in your hair.

What?

INTERVIEWER 1: How do you manage out here in the wintertime?

Well, we just do the best we can.

INTERVIEWER 2: Where do most of your kids clothes come from?

Salvation army.

INTERVIEWER 2: Can you get fairly good stuff there?

Fairly.

Some things, you think they can wear, you get in there, you got to either remodel or give it to a bigger kid or a smaller kid, or.

Somehow or other, her clothes so far come from the salvation army.

She didn't get one thing new since she'd been born.

And I wanted to get her a couple of dresses, you know?

They haven't-- behave.

They haven't had any the last time I was in there, you know, little dresses for babies.

And they're expensive-- almost $5 a piece.

Oh my God.

I thought, you know, big dresses for school first graders was terrible.

Get out of here.

Well, sit down then.

But my god, little kids-- and, you know, you'd think they was cheap, wouldn't you, because it doesn't take much to make them.

But oh my.

Just me again, [inaudible] baby.

DARLENE: My mother-in-law wants to go into the place in Holmesburg where they have clothes in some kind of a church.

And this little girl here weighed 8 pounds and 5 ounces the last time I had her at the doctors.

INTERVIEWER 2: How old is she?

DARLENE: Two months.

She didn't eat nothing.

She didn't like what they were feeding her.

Of course, I don't blame them.

Here, [inaudible].

They tried to get her to drink the water.

That was just like trying to lead a puppy dog to something they didn't like.

She never had anything for me.

All she did was spit it up.

But they fed her.

INTERVIEWER 2: Is she eating any better now?

DARLENE: She eats a good bit better now.

She drinks one of these little bottles.

When I brought her home, she only drank about two ounces out of it.

Now, she's doing pretty good, except for that milk I don't like.

I don't even like the smell of it.

[inaudible] [baby crying] You don't mind?

Get out of that.

TRACY: [inaudible] --baby.

No, baby.

No, baby.

No, baby.

Ah, get up.

DARLENE: Tracy.

Stay all of bed.

DARLENE: Oh my God.

[inaudible] my baby said it.

You missed her.

Watch your head [inaudible].

[inaudible].

Stay in there.

Put it back.

INTERVIEWER 2: What do you think's going to happen to your kids?

Do you think they'll all end up in places like this?

I don't know.

I hope not.

No, if the welfare gets their heads set, they'll take them.

That's not because they're being meeting with-- we're not mean with them.

As you can see, they're running wild.

But that's their point of view what they see when they come to see you.

You see what I mean?

They take advantage, somebody like you people.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think you was from the welfare because that's what they do.

They come back, come back, and come back.

Sometimes, they come back every day to see if anything has changed or anything.

But if everything's the same and everything's the way they don't want it, why, they're bound to take them.

No matter how good or how bad they're treated, they're going to take them regardless because you can't be good to kids and starve them.

But at the same time, and that's exactly what he's trying to do, starve them.

Or he'd get a better job, a full-time job instead of part-time job, wouldn't he?

If he cared anything for his kids, he'd do that, wouldn't he, for them?

Well, you got a full-time job, don't you?

Well, it's better than a part-time.

Are you guaranteed that you'll never get laid off?

There's no wall under the back end there.

It's sinking down in the mud.

That's how come the wall in there is cracking.

Walk up there and look.

It's sinking down in the mud.

We'll be living in a mud house instead.

Oh, I hate this place.

The more I'm away from it, the more I like to be away from it, not because I don't like housework.

I just love to work on a house that's worth while working in.

Of course, I always tried to keep mom's house clean when I was home.

No kids to tear it up, only me, and I did a good job at that.

After I cleaned it up, I tore it up.

But at least it was cleaned up for, you know, when company comes, like the insurance man or somebody.

I think I'd still sooner live in that woodshed.

It looks better than the house, doesn't it?

Turn around and look at it.

Don't it?

It's not good, but it's not bad.

Now, that's one reason why I want to move out, you know?

So get a bigger house.

Maybe people come see you with kids and all.

But it's no use looking.

I don't think there's a house available.

There is a house down towards town.

I guess you saw it.

It's a great big house.

It's beside a little store.

They want $100 a month for it.

And no furnace in it.

How about that?

You'd freeze in it.

And a friend of a friend of his moved in it there in the summertime.

So then they moved back out of it.

So as it got cold, he moved out and got another house.

So now they got a furnace, and they got it nice.

They got five kids.

And they really got it made.

I mean, they got money.

He drives a tractor and trailer and gets paid every week, every two weeks, I guess it is.

I talked to her the other day.

I dropped down.

That's when I got a dead battery in her driveway.

And she said she spent $127 for groceries.

And that's without the taxable things, you know, like tobacco or, you know, cigarettes and things.

And I told her, I said, if I had that much, I said I'd be about the happiest person in the world.

TRACY: [inaudible].

I know.

She said, she's like an ordinary woman, you know?

She likes new things every time payday comes around.

Sometimes, she gets it.

I don't.

I never get anything.

Of course, I don't miss it.

I never did get anything.

I always thought the kids come first for what they need.

They need more things than what a big person usually needs.

Isn't that right?

Can you come out here and sit?

Right there.

Huh?

Can you?

Come out right here.

Come on.

Right here.

What did you do.

Wet yourself again?

Come on.

She's a problem child, that one.

Now, sit.

Little man, you have to get over here now.

Keep your hands off.

Watch me get too much milk for this little bottle.

TRACY: Go wash it.

Go wash it.

But you couldn't do that again.

I tried that once.

You get enough for a little bottle, and usually, I had too much.

Tracy, go and sit down.

What's your grandpa say about that, you little [inaudible].

No.

Does that taste better, huh?

Does it taste better?

She's going to murder her yet the way she picks her up and shakes her.

TRACY: [inaudible].

DARLENE: Where's your socks?

Oh, God.

Hey, pick it up.

You won't believe me, but I had this house spotless this morning.

It's not like [inaudible] in the ash pans.

I can't even go outside to the bathroom around here, she's into something.

He climbs up.

He don't-- you're not a girl.

Playing with doll babies.

I sent you to bed, didn't I?

Until you choke on it, kid.

I had about enough of you.

She's mad because her daddy took the car.

She wanted to go away.

TRACY: That's going to hurt my doll bag.

DARLENE: Oh, what a shame.

What a shame.

TRACY: I have to go to the bathroom.

DARLENE: Get your shoes on and go-- and your coat.

Where is it?

There it is.

DARLENE: Get it.

Hurry up.

Goodbye.

INTERVIEWER 2: Have you heard from the DPA?

Yeah, I got a form to fill out today in the mail.

I got my food stamps.

I went into the bank and picked them up Monday.

I made two trips then.

I forgot them the first time.

INTERVIEWER 2: That's very nice, though.

And I was at the store.

Everything on the bottom shelf there is what I got.

How about that?

INTERVIEWER 2: That's good.

And we got to use them all up now before the 30th.

It's kind of hard to do.

I smell gas.

INTERVIEWER 2: How much did you get?

$72 worth.

But we paid $44 for it.

I didn't think I was dumb enough to let my car run.

[inaudible] TRACY: Is it hot?

No, it's real cold.

Go to bed.

TRACY: What is [inaudible] doing there in my bed?

You put it in there, dum dum.

TRACY: [inaudible].

Pull it up and get the hell in there.

I had this house spotless yesterday till the old man come along.

You never believe it though.

I'll be damned.

I believe it's going to snow-- I mean, yeah, it's going to-- TRACY: What is that?

[inaudible] Oh, all right.

I'm a little shook up today, but I'm all right.

This weather and Christmas and everything got me bothered.

I've about had it.

I really don't like it here.

I used to.

I'd move out tonight if I had a house.

You better believe that.

INTERVIEWER 1: What do you do.

Watch TV?

Go to the movies?

Read a book?

Nope.

I watch TV when I feel like it.

There's something I like, I watch it.

And I never go to movies.

I used to read books, but I don't have time.

INTERVIEWER 1: Magazines?

That's what I used to read.

Love magazines.

Trying to learn something.

It gets too lonesome around here.

Whenever I get the car, I just go.

I don't care where I go.

I just go.

That's how lonesome it gets up here when no one's around.

INTERVIEWER 2: How old were you when you got married?

How old?

20.

How was your husband?

38.

INTERVIEWER 2: He was 38 when you got married?

He said.

Of course, I don't ever believe him.

I don't believe any man.

Not even this man when he tells me he's wet.

I don't believe him.

Nope, seven years is too long to settle down when somebody don't care.

INTERVIEWER 2: Why do you stay?

He'll follow me.

He said he wasn't going to support the kids if I left, and that woman said he'd have to, or else he'd go to the workhouse.

So she says it's not the idea of me leaving him or him leaving me.

She said the kids is what's involved here.

But if I didn't have any kids and I left him, I would have to support myself.

And he'd support himself I guess.

I don't know.

But I threaten him.

But it don't do no good.

I even did leave a couple of times.

INTERVIEWER 2: Where did you go?

To a friend.

Stayed down there for three days.

Then he got a job-- or she, they got a job.

Then I was dumb enough to come home.

Of course, what do you expect when two kids can talk?

That one and the oldest one-- I want my daddy.

I want my daddy.

Can't do much about it.

Was your mother living when you got married?

DARLENE: Mm-hmm.

What did she think about the whole thing?

She wanted me to to forget a certain somebody.

I didn't forget him.

We still see each other occasionally.

He likes my kids.

He likes all four of them.

But we can't live with them.

It's out of the question because my so-called husband would be right there, and he'd murder him.

He threatened to kill us both if he ever caught us together.

INTERVIEWER 2: [inaudible] would do that?

He caught us.

No.

That certain someone was up here last night.

When he comes, my husband goes to bed.

How about that?

He's a dumb dumb.

INTERVIEWER 2: How does your father feel about your marriage?

He doesn't like it.

He never did.

INTERVIEWER 2: Does he get along with your husband?

No.

They don't like each other.

My dad don't come down when my husband's here.

My husband don't go up to home whenever I go home.

That's very seldom, so very seldom I have the gas to go up there.

Nope.

My husband don't like none of my people.

My people don't like him.

Can't blame me.

My aunt, all she does is nag at him.

What she'd do if it was him, or if she was him.

And she's a pain in the neck.

But we go up occasionally to see her.

She come down once to see the-- twice to see the baby.

How about that?

She wanted her.

I wouldn't give her to her.

She's working.

She couldn't take care of him anyway.

And I'm not working, so I could take care of him the best I can.

You're not cross-eyed.

He's like her.

Everything goes up to her nose, and she goes.

quit long cross-eyed.

Jiminy.

I'd hide if I were you.

He does it just to torment.

And of course, I-- Of course, she can't help it.

She was born that way.

She just looks like my mother.

Look at your feet.

[inaudible] got you the first one to bath, and she's the dirtiest already.

INTERVIEWER 1: What do you think's going to happen to your kids when they grow up?

DARLENE: Oh, I don't know.

I hope they get a happier life than what they got now when they grow up.

This one will probably go to the army.

If he's not one of the lucky ones not to go.

Put that in the garbage.

You ate it all.

INTERVIEWER 2: What kind of life would you want them to have?

I don't know.

I guess life's the way you make it.

I don't know.

INTERVIEWER 2: Do you think people can change the lives?

What's that?

INTERVIEWER 2: Do you think people can change their lives?

Oh, yeah, they can if they try and they really want to.

I really want to change my life.

Forget about what happened.

But maybe that'll never come.

You big cow.

So I don't know what's going to become of anybody this time.

I don't want to starve the kids, and I don't want to give them up.

I'll have to do one way or another.

I either have to give them up, put them in a home where they'll get special attention and things they need, or else they'll have to leave them and get on the DPA to keep them.

I don't know which would be the worst.

Way my reputation is going down the drain, that doesn't matter to me what happens.

So what else you want to know?

INTERVIEWER 1: I don't know.

Whatever you want to tell.

Whatever I tell you.

Find me another man that likes kids.

[inaudible] likes kids.

No, now I want to ask you a question.

What would you do if you as a woman and you had kids and was afraid to lose them after your man got laid off?

What would you do about it?

Would you fight the world to keep them, or would you do what I have an idea to do?

Put yourself in my shoes.

Only you're a man.

Put yourself as a girl in my shoes.

Hey, you're not talking.

It's a hard thing of it.

Tell me what you'd do.

NARRATOR: The series of programs that included Darlene was titled "Notes on an Appalachia County" and also included a panel of reactors, a mixture of local residents and experts who expressed their opinions about poverty and about Darlene.

I think it's a situation where I think she could use some help, that maybe she could get herself out of this.

And she also has to look at her children.

I mean, her children have a whole life ahead of them to live yet.

And I mean, she's thinking of herself and of them, but I don't think she's really looking forward to their future.

I think we've seen poverty in its most naked form this evening.

The question enters my mind as to just how typical the situation exists in this film as to whether or not the situation which we have seen in Darlene's case is typical, how widespread it is, and just can anything be done in a situation like this?

Do you give a woman of this sort any kind of training, I mean, as to her management and so forth?

Well, she has a lot of skills in home management.

She really does well.

She really does.

But what I was getting at was that the what she's actually doing to her children, I mean, what they are losing in value as far as health-wise.

WILLIAM BENDER: Right, well, you have to develop a bit of insight into the problem.

And she doesn't see this.

She's so busy just trying to etch out a living, just barely keep alive that she doesn't have a chance for the luxuries of looking, you know, how her children are being treated.

I mean, this is barely keeping alive.

This is the big effort.

Have you met this lady in person?

WILLIAM BENDER: No, not myself.

But typical-- Other?

WILLIAM BENDER: Yes.

Well, how widespread is it in, well, say in Blair county.

WILLIAM BENDER: In Blair county, it's a very common situation.

It really is.

Is it outlying or central, local, you know?

It's not central in the city, more or less?

WILLIAM BENDER: No, it's everywhere.

It's widespread.

And this is a kind of a medium type situation.

There are worse and there are better.

But this is about a medium type.

You mean there are people that live worse than Darlene does?

Yes, very much so.

Right here at Blair County?

Yes.

At least Darlene hasn't given up.

And she hasn't become bitter.

And this is-- once this has occurred, people are very difficult to work with.

She's 28 years old now.

I'm wondering at what point this hopeful thing in her will not be there anymore.

Right, there's an urgency in the situation that is quite obvious, I think.

Well, she made one remark in there that nobody cares.

I don't really think it's a fact that nobody cares.

But I mean, personally, I'm amazed at the situation because, I mean, I have realized there is poverty, but I don't think you look at it that way.

I mean, unless you're really involved with the family in a situation like that, I think it's sort of hard to imagine that it really exists in our own area.

WILLIAM BENDER: So I think that's interesting in the fact that-- and the point especially that she looks up to people on DPA, as she puts it.

They really-- Really had it made, she said.

Right.

Yeah, they can get everything and all that.

Right, I mean, this is just shows how low that income level or just a living level that the family is living.

It's very problem.

She was caught in the crossfire between two kinds of instability-- one of economic instability, and the other of family and relationships instability because she couldn't count on that either.

There's really two kinds of poverty she's experiencing, isn't there?

One is the poverty of material things, and the other is the poverty of loneliness and isolation.

She gets in the car and goes every chance she can.

She has nobody but the kids to talk to.

Well, that's her big hang up.

She's insecure, and she needs the affection.

And she's willing to sacrifice a lot of things to retain any degree of that affection that she can get.

Well, you know, there are those who would be less kind in talking about this.

Here are two healthy people, a man and a woman, both apparently in good health, four kids apparently in reasonably good health, and they are living like this.

I think one of the difficulties is that to make an assumption by seeing Darlene, that Darlene represents all mothers or all women in poverty.

And this isn't necessarily true.

But some of her reactions are common psychological mechanisms, aren't they, that you would find in many situations?

In this case, intensified because of her limited resources-- limited economic resources, limited relationships resources.

Maybe this is an early case of what many people think, at least, happens in poverty, too, because by the time she loses some of her incentive of the family and so forth, then she will become harder.

And this is a point at which the public revolts against a woman seeking affection as a hard way.

How can Darlene's situation happen?

You know, somewhere, she has, or her family has slipped.

Got lost.

And, you know, the system that spends a good deal of money has not, in her case at least, functioned.

WILLIAM BENDER: Well, I think it lost a lot of the one-to-one type contact that it requires.

It really does.

And I think this is just and evidence.

The fact that she got lost is an indication that the problem is so widespread because the worker who goes around to this home is not just spending the time with this individual, but with 15, 60, 100 individuals like this.

And there just aren't that many hours in the day.

I mean, so this would be an indication, I think, to people like you said, that wouldn't believe that this problem exists.

The individuals working with these families aren't just driving around.

They are working with particular families.

And there are such a large number that we lose the one-to-one contact many times.

Well, what is the problem here?

The problem looks like the family is still halfway intact.

She is still a person that's responsive and responsible to her family.

There's only one thing lacking supposedly, and that's the ability to support the family in the manner that we would all like for them to be supported.

So it looks to me like there's just one answer if you try to boil this thing down from the little bit that we know about this-- a living wage.

Well, I was interested in the number of occasions in which she pinned her hopes about a better future on a better house, a larger house, more room, friends could come to visit.

They could bring their kids to play with her kids.

She defined one key step in solving her problem as a better house.

And, you know, maybe we ought to listen to that.

That's a kind of an interesting thing.

MAN: Sure.

For $14 a month, what kind of a house are you going to rent in Blair County or any other county for that matter?

But you see, we're at the problem of, where do you grab hold of this thing?

There are several handles on it.

Which way can you pry best?

Yeah, and which handle do you grab first to get the most mileage?

Darlene says, give me a better house, and a lot of these other things I can fix up a little better than I have now.

Is she right?

Darlene and her family will appear again in Pennsylvania Parade.

It's been our good fortune to remain in contact with the family over a period of 25 years.

An unusual, perhaps unmatched opportunity for a documentary maker.

There has been growth and change and an increased understanding on our part of the complexity of Darlene's life.

We will meet her again on Pennsylvania Parade.

We'll also explore many other areas of life in rural Pennsylvania, or perhaps I should say, lives in rural Pennsylvania.

Our principal subject in this series of documentaries has been people.

We watch.

We listen.

We bring back to you a record of the attitudes and actions that make up life in this part of the Commonwealth.

We hope you'll continue to join us on Pennsylvania Parade.

For Penn State public broadcasting, I'm PJ O'Connell.

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